Advice needed: How to amalgamate pension pots

cfw1994

Dazed_and_C0nfused said:

shellstar said:

Ok, so I tracked down the first pension and it was tiny. £586. When I asked about transferring they said they would just refund it and I'm expecting that money to hit my bank account within the next couple of weeks. We're therefore just looking at my three 'main' pension pots. They've dropped a bit due to the turmoil but I guess that is to be expected. 

Aviva Pension My Future Growth Pre 2025. Charge 0.25% Risk rating 4 out of 7. I'm not sure how to compare the performance against other pensions so if anybody know how to do this I would be grateful.

Scottish Widows is more confusing to me. I can't say what the fund is called because it basically says it is called 'Workplace Pension Ex employees of COMPANY NAME'. In the most recent statement it says it is invested in BAL targeting flex access which contains Scottish Widows Pension Portfolio Two CS8. Charges on last statement totalled £145. Doesn't say what the basis of that is. I've really struggled to find the information for Scottish Widows which does make me like the other two a bit more. The risk level is medium

Smart Pension: This is my current workplace pension, so has minimal in it so far. It is invested in their Smart Sustainable Growth Fund. Mobius Life Limited is the provider for the fund. The charge is 0.30%. The risk level if medium.

At this point, I'm minded to amalgamate the Scottish Widows into the Aviva pot for now, and build up Smart Pension separately, but I would be grateful if people could advise how I can compare their performance and which one might be the best in terms of performance? Because they have such different amounts and timeframes I've found it confusing. 

Do let me know if what I've provided isn't helpful (or worse, too much info for a public place, but I think I've kept it vague enough). 

That wasn't a DB pension was it?

If so you have probably lost a bit more than £586 by doing that.  Was a transfer to one of your existing pensions, which would have included the employer contributions as well, not possible?

You are of course right…but I wouldn’t sweat too much over a sum under £1k 😉

The Aviva fund can be seen at https://www.trustnet.com/factsheets/P/gw6y/aviva-pen-my-future-growth-fp-pn, whilst the SW one looks like https://www.trustnet.com/factsheets/P/r74m/sw-pension-portfolio-two-pn-cs8///

Pretty similar looking, I guess looking *back*, the Aviva looks slightly better in my eyes (#PastPerfIsNoGuaranteeToFutureEtc), but can’t tell what the charges are….
I would probably lean towards your view of amalgamating that to the Aviva one, but would specifically ask if the SW one has any guarantees, & also try to get clarity on charges.  Maybe Dunstonh would share some thoughts for you.

Marcon

cfw1994 said:

Dazed_and_C0nfused said:

shellstar said:

Ok, so I tracked down the first pension and it was tiny. £586. When I asked about transferring they said they would just refund it and I'm expecting that money to hit my bank account within the next couple of weeks. We're therefore just looking at my three 'main' pension pots. They've dropped a bit due to the turmoil but I guess that is to be expected. 

Aviva Pension My Future Growth Pre 2025. Charge 0.25% Risk rating 4 out of 7. I'm not sure how to compare the performance against other pensions so if anybody know how to do this I would be grateful.

Scottish Widows is more confusing to me. I can't say what the fund is called because it basically says it is called 'Workplace Pension Ex employees of COMPANY NAME'. In the most recent statement it says it is invested in BAL targeting flex access which contains Scottish Widows Pension Portfolio Two CS8. Charges on last statement totalled £145. Doesn't say what the basis of that is. I've really struggled to find the information for Scottish Widows which does make me like the other two a bit more. The risk level is medium

Smart Pension: This is my current workplace pension, so has minimal in it so far. It is invested in their Smart Sustainable Growth Fund. Mobius Life Limited is the provider for the fund. The charge is 0.30%. The risk level if medium.

At this point, I'm minded to amalgamate the Scottish Widows into the Aviva pot for now, and build up Smart Pension separately, but I would be grateful if people could advise how I can compare their performance and which one might be the best in terms of performance? Because they have such different amounts and timeframes I've found it confusing. 

Do let me know if what I've provided isn't helpful (or worse, too much info for a public place, but I think I've kept it vague enough). 

That wasn't a DB pension was it?

If so you have probably lost a bit more than £586 by doing that.  Was a transfer to one of your existing pensions, which would have included the employer contributions as well, not possible?

You are of course right…but I wouldn’t sweat too much over a sum under £1k 😉

Except if this was a DB pension, the transfer sum including the employer contributions would have been thousands rather than just hundreds....

shellstar

None of my pensions are defined benefit! I wish! The only people I know my age with those work in the public sector or military. I've always worked in the private sector and those kinds of benefits went long before I started working. Tbh most of my employers have only contributed up to 5% as well. It's not exactly gold package unfortunately. 

I wasn't given the option to transfer. I specifically asked about transfer and was told I would be refunded the money. I suspect it was either a smaller amount that hasn't grown very much, or they've not been investing it for some reason. It has been sold on several times since I left the company it was originally with in 2005. 

Marcon

shellstar said:

None of my pensions are defined benefit! I wish! The only people I know my age with those work in the public sector or military. I've always worked in the private sector and those kinds of benefits went long before I started working. Tbh most of my employers have only contributed up to 5% as well. It's not exactly gold package unfortunately. 

I wasn't given the option to transfer. I specifically asked about transfer and was told I would be refunded the money. I suspect it was either a smaller amount that hasn't grown very much, or they've not been investing it for some reason. It has been sold on several times since I left the company it was originally with in 2005. 

In that case it must have been some sort of occupational arrangement rather than a private (personal) pension, otherwise a refund wouldn't be possible. It's got nothing to do with the amount, and 'they' should have been investing it regardless, albeit in a fund chosen by the trustees rather than individual members.

shellstar

@Marcon I did think it was weird. I certainly thought it was a pension and received paperwork calling it such, but the amount tally's with the little documentation I have so if they are sending it back, I will add it to my normal savings and concentrate on the bigger pots. 

LHW99

shellstar said:

@Marcon I did think it was weird. I certainly thought it was a pension and received paperwork calling it such, but the amount tally's with the little documentation I have so if they are sending it back, I will add it to my normal savings and concentrate on the bigger pots. 

Or could you add it to an existing pension (if you are not contributing the max allowed)? You would at least then get a Government tax top-up.

shellstar

@LHW99 Yes, I'll definitely look to do that. Good idea, thanks. 

DRS1

cfw1994 said:

Dazed_and_C0nfused said:

shellstar said:

Ok, so I tracked down the first pension and it was tiny. £586. When I asked about transferring they said they would just refund it and I'm expecting that money to hit my bank account within the next couple of weeks. We're therefore just looking at my three 'main' pension pots. They've dropped a bit due to the turmoil but I guess that is to be expected. 

Aviva Pension My Future Growth Pre 2025. Charge 0.25% Risk rating 4 out of 7. I'm not sure how to compare the performance against other pensions so if anybody know how to do this I would be grateful.

Scottish Widows is more confusing to me. I can't say what the fund is called because it basically says it is called 'Workplace Pension Ex employees of COMPANY NAME'. In the most recent statement it says it is invested in BAL targeting flex access which contains Scottish Widows Pension Portfolio Two CS8. Charges on last statement totalled £145. Doesn't say what the basis of that is. I've really struggled to find the information for Scottish Widows which does make me like the other two a bit more. The risk level is medium

Smart Pension: This is my current workplace pension, so has minimal in it so far. It is invested in their Smart Sustainable Growth Fund. Mobius Life Limited is the provider for the fund. The charge is 0.30%. The risk level if medium.

At this point, I'm minded to amalgamate the Scottish Widows into the Aviva pot for now, and build up Smart Pension separately, but I would be grateful if people could advise how I can compare their performance and which one might be the best in terms of performance? Because they have such different amounts and timeframes I've found it confusing. 

Do let me know if what I've provided isn't helpful (or worse, too much info for a public place, but I think I've kept it vague enough). 

That wasn't a DB pension was it?

If so you have probably lost a bit more than £586 by doing that.  Was a transfer to one of your existing pensions, which would have included the employer contributions as well, not possible?

You are of course right…but I wouldn’t sweat too much over a sum under £1k 😉

The Aviva fund can be seen at https://www.trustnet.com/factsheets/P/gw6y/aviva-pen-my-future-growth-fp-pn, whilst the SW one looks like https://www.trustnet.com/factsheets/P/r74m/sw-pension-portfolio-two-pn-cs8///

Pretty similar looking, I guess looking *back*, the Aviva looks slightly better in my eyes (#PastPerfIsNoGuaranteeToFutureEtc), but can’t tell what the charges are….
I would probably lean towards your view of amalgamating that to the Aviva one, but would specifically ask if the SW one has any guarantees, & also try to get clarity on charges.  Maybe Dunstonh would share some thoughts for you.

I may be looking at the wrong bit but it looks like 0.4% for Aviva and 0.1% for SW. Perhaps there are hidden costs for SW?

Still Trustnet obviously rates the Aviva one more highly - 5 Crowns to 3 Crowns (whatever they mean)

shellstar

I'm finding the charges element clear as mud tbh. Aviva says it is 0.25% but the 2024 annual statement (I'm due another one soon I just realised) says they took £12.50 in charges, which seems mighty low on a pension pot of £114,510.28. I make that it would have been a charge of £286,52 at that rate, but I can't see that amount anywhere on the statement. 

I think I will likely merge SW into Aviva. They seem pretty similar and in general Aviva is easier to use in terms of the website etc. 

dunstonh

I'm finding the charges element clear as mud tbh. Aviva says it is 0.25% but the 2024 annual statement (I'm due another one soon I just realised) says they took £12.50 in charges, which seems mighty low on a pension pot of £114,510.28. 

Charges are clear nowadays but there are some quirks and different asset types and products charge in different ways.     The information is there but you cannot assume like for like comparisons between providers without knowing its on the same basis.

Unbundled charging will show the charges for each element of the service, product and funds.
bundled charging will give you a bottom line.

Modern contracts tend to be unbundled.
Older contracts tend to be bundled.

if unbundled, you usually see the charges shown as follows:
Product/platform charge
Adviser charge
OCF/TER or AMC (depending on asset type)
Transaction costs 
incidental/other costs.
Total.

In the annual cost and charges disclosure, there is a quirk that takes the charges paid over the period and then displays them in monetary terms (which is fine) but then converts them to a percentage of the current value (or statement date value).  That percentage figure can understate or overstate the actual charges rate because the charges were taken over a period of varying values. So, if the value has gone up over the period, the percentage will understate the actual percentage.    That is an EU directive quirk.

Finally, you have transaction costs.  Another EU directive requirement that most people disregard but has to be disclosed.   Its an implicit fee using one of several different calculation methods that can lead to different outcomes.      The FCA know this figure to be useless and is currently consulting on changing the methodology away from the EU method and introducing some consistency.     As its an implicit charge rather than an explicit charge, most people totally ignore it.

Aviva have contracts that use both unbundled and bundled.  Plus, their costs and charges disclosures can be printed using periods shorter than one year.