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Wage and duties dispute
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Malarky21 said:No one i have spoken to (and i have spoken to lots of people) think raising a grievance over this situation is 'going about things totally wrong, causing friction and trouble, somewhat silly etc but i'll take on board all your comments.0
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the bottom line is the OP has picked a hill to die on and if they hadn't already got some warmish leads of roles elsewhere they are going to find themselves out of a job one way or another0
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A point I failed to make earlier is that when companies merge or are taken over, wages often are unequal for the same job. Those at the top end, and possibly above the upper limit of their grade, can go without payrises for a number of years until their salary again falls within the band.0
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EnPointe said:the bottom line is the OP has picked a hill to die on and if they hadn't already got some warmish leads of roles elsewhere they are going to find themselves out of a job one way or another0
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My original post was just looking for some advice to the questions i posed rather than lectures on what a terrible thing i've done etc, just wanted some responses to the questions. Thanks0
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OP everything I said hinges on when you said " ideally i'd want to stay"
Didn't mean to offend.
The more general point is being entitled to do something doesn't necessarily make doing it a good idea. Entirely depends on what you want and how patient you are prepared to be to chase it. And the risk reward of the specific action. In gaming the meta. Or in old money tactics.
You triggered a process (which indeed does have rules). You also push other actors into a need to make decisions now - where they did not have to do that just *now* prior. Other replies have touched on this. And how some choices are in practice unavailable during a financial crunch or a consultation - leaving a problem to be solved with fewer good options left. HR may and often do constrain management options in larger outfits to suit their broader goals. They have found an acceptable (to them) solution - just not the one you wanted.
Totally agree the recommendations you received ARE legally correct re entitlement. And yet also operating a bit independently from human nature, custom and practice and diversity of workplace cultures in the wild.
Both of these things can be true at the same time.
Sometimes you have no choice from prior interactions and a grievance is all you can do. Sure.
Yet often sleeping dogs can be let lie - as a formal HR process - and a known problem subject returned to later as conditions change and allow. Job opens up. Annual reviews. Change of boss. Business picks up. Power balance changes.
My ah it's a misunderstanding/loyal long serving ploy upthread - is simply what I would do if I found myself in your situation and did not want to take the money and bother with the job hunt. And I had a management target for the play. To row it back. Seek support and counsel as described. Going back. Dropping the grievance. Then I'd give it 12-18 months to see how things unfolded. The opportunity cost is that the settlement offer might not be on the table later when I found a job lead and had got tired of further lack of progress.
Or take the money, embrace the change. Find the (better) job. Accept being a newbie in a different outfit with a different commute.
Of course the whole idea might be utter nonsense at this point based on the management in your company. I don't know.
Where I worked over the years it would sometimes have been a good and effective option. And other times the density of utterly selfish unpleasant transactional bosses close to me was just too high. Sometimes there wasn't an obvious person with a care for the long term health of the organisation / its knowledge and people and a cadre building ethos. And relevant status connections and power in the right part of the business. People who would recognise those things when they saw them and walk the talk on the supposed values of the place.
My takeaway from my own doings both as a wannabe and as a leader with too many hungry people for too few high performance slots - is this.
If you make a fuss about pay and rations or roles and promotions expected - and then don't leave when you receive a career knockback. They now *know* they can do that again. And quite likely will. Depending on the context for the knockback - you can go around a few times rolling the lucky dice on internal job applications or promotions based on performing above and beyond where you are - and building and demoing next level skills as opportunities permit.
Once a pattern of knockback and continuity is established. Bluff called. Did not leave.
When they do it again later the only reason needed is "because we can". A relevant colloquialism for this affront to natural justice - is that "it doesn't say just desserts on the tin lad".
Once you have demonstrated that you stay anyway. The risk of you flouncing is known to be low. You did not jump last time. We can make another convenient decision overall for us and disappoint you again with different excuses. At low risk.
In your example - promoting your higher paid colleague flat on salary into a next level role slot (in any team) and leaving you nice and cheap in your current position and then opening up their vacated job as another lower cost position alongside you (and getting you to do early cv reviews or screening interviews and then leaving you the task to train the noob gratis after they pick one) would be an example of such a "convenient" decision - when financial rain clouds clear.
On another day with different management where you have recognition of value and support. And are known to want and be a good candidate for a move - you do get a better paid job.
You don't have to agree with any of these subjective opinions.
It's your circus and your ambitions and willingness to compromise to achieve them
Peace
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Thank you for a more constructive message gm00
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Malarky21 said:EnPointe said:the bottom line is the OP has picked a hill to die on and if they hadn't already got some warmish leads of roles elsewhere they are going to find themselves out of a job one way or another
it;s apparent you have little to no understanding of the impact of TUPE and redeployment and how this can impact on wages and salaries during the transitional period , which may last for a number of years - and in some organisations seperate structures and wage rates are maintained ( example East Midlands Railways with 'main line' and 'regional' contracts) or the business structure is such that one group of staff retains TACoS not offered to others ( e.g. those with 'postman' status working for Parcelforce )...
I agree with @gm0 's assessment of things as well.
a lot of managers are going to see you complaint / grievance as ill-founded and if you don;t leave you are going to be sidelined time and time again becasue you didn't leave.0 -
Malarky21 said:My original post was just looking for some advice to the questions i posed rather than lectures on what a terrible thing i've done etc, just wanted some responses to the questions. Thanks
You got advice and opinion from people who have made that mistake before and/or are accredited trades Union representatives , HR people or the like
you didn't like the advice you were given because it didn't validate your perception of being hard done to and becasue it opened youreyes to the reality of potential outcomes.
the first thing a TU rep will ask when someone comes for advice aobut a grievance is what the individual wants as the outcoem of the grievance - on individual cases ( rather than wider group grievances about equal treatment or job evaluation scores ) and increase in wage unless you have a slam dunk case of demonstrating that your role clearly meets the requirements of a published job evaluation scheme is that the employer with dispute, deny and divert ... grievances about task allocation are also fraught and need to be carefully managed , on an individual basis the grievances most likely to succeed are those where there is clear bullying and harassment of an indvidual either by supervisors / managers or by peers / subordinatres and management allowing it to happen0 -
Ultimately you have a manager, even if it's the CEO. They may not be present or particularly engaged but ultimately you report into someone and haven't become the de facto CEO.
Even without a merger there can be disparity in salaries depending on history, career path etc. I was a "M2", the grade immediately below a senior manager. A new junior was hired as a "M1" and I was asked to manage him as his senior. I had come up through the business from being in the call centre and as a consequence I was right at the bottom of the pay scale. The Junior had about the same amount of years of experience as me but on smaller bits of work and had a salary near the top of the M1 scale.
After a couple of months he came to me to complain that his salary was too low; I was very tempted to let him know that as his boss I was earning £7,500 less than him.
I ultimately stayed another year, then applied for a sideways move to another company but doubled my pay. They even said they were concerned they were underpaying me and worried I'd leave for better money... I couldn't stifle the laugh.
I won't comment on the sense of raising a grievance as a way to renegotiate salaries as that ship has sailed. Ultimately you have said what their offer is and even if you had no one will know what difference it will make in your life so its really for you to decide if it makes you happy and hopefully you've not had your card marked.
Will always say you get promotions by staying with a company and you get good money by switching company. Which is your priority is likely to change over time.0
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