Before I paid 7xVC's 2016/thru23, I had 36 full yrs. 2011/thru2016 are still gaps. Why can't I fill?

1957DfurdPensionist

QrizB said:

1957DfurdPensionist said:

Someone messed up with sloppy design of the transition, didn't they?

No.

In fact you're receiving more state pension than you would have done under the old scheme, plus you paid less NI than if you'd been contracted-in and still get to benefit from the GMP that your contracted-out scheme will pay you.

You're one of the winners under the new scheme, not one of the losers.

Some of us just love it when that old line gets trotted out - would you like to add "Move On - Nothing to see here" ?

And the GMP story is far more complex than you have presented.  How many private sector contracted out DB schemes containing GMP were allowed to be wound up before the rules were finally tightened in 2004?  And what happened to the GMP in such schemes?  Most scheme members were given three types of option for compulsorily transferring out upon wind up.  Yes the magic lawyer recipe for "fair play" - give them three options and if they don't choose just use a default option and wind up the scheme as promised to shareholders.

Under which of the three cups will you find the GMP?

QrizB

No, I think I'll bow out now.

Sarahspangles

1957DfurdPensionist said:

Some of us just love it when that old line gets trotted out - would you like to add "Move On - Nothing to see here" ?

And yet I’m going to say it. Move on - and enjoy yourself, it’s later than you think.

1957DfurdPensionist

So no.one here knows why I am discriminated against by being 6 or 7 months older than I am, even though my birthdate is nowhere near the boundaries of the transition period, or wishes to be associated with acknowledging it?

is there anyone in the forum that knows the real story on private sector GMP safeguards and their efficacy?  The phrase "protected rights" has been used and misused and even forgotten in some provider circles over the years.

When I worked on producing legacy statistics for due diligence matters in the City two decades ago there was such a thing as accountancy and auditing standards.  Did HMRC lose track of GMP in all but the simplest cases e.g. NHS and Local Government pension schemes?

Where do I find the full details of calculation of my COPE?  What standards applied before the figures were foist upon us?

molerat

Where do I find the full details of calculation of my COPE?  What standards applied before the figures were foist upon us?

You ask DWP to produce it for you, they will do so upon request.  The vast majority are not interested or would not understand it anyway.  It will likely be a fairly long document.

So no.one here knows why I am discriminated against by being 6 or 7 months older than I am,

You are not being discriminated against.  Like everything else in life it is just the luck of your date of birth, not discrimination. If you want to blame someone blame your parents.  There are some that have been "discriminated against" more than you, me for instance.  I could only get to £212.91, am I moaning about it ?  NO. Am I despondent because I was born 18 months too early ? NO. I am receiving more than I would have under the old rules just as you are.  If you reached state retirement prior to April 2016 you would have only received that amount that you have since managed to add £44.24 to under those "woeful" transitional rules..

1957DfurdPensionist

molerat said:

Where do I find the full details of calculation of my COPE?  What standards applied before the figures were foist upon us?

You ask DWP to produce it for you, they will do so upon request.  The vast majority are not interested or would not understand it anyway.  It will likely be a fairly long document.

Why was such a document never automatically provided?

So no.one here knows why I am discriminated against by being 6 or 7 months older than I am,

You are not being discriminated against.  Like everything else in life it is just the luck of your date of birth, not discrimination. If you want to blame someone blame your parents. 

Please @molerat, don't propound such skewed nonsense about age discrimination. The government may well claim exclusion from equality law, but I am sure they don't need forumites to muddy the water ridiculously like that and trying to defend their less well thought out decisions. Your lost £8.50pw may mean little to you, and evidently my lost £4.50pw you could care less about. Perhaps the numbers from your occupational pension(s) yielded more self interest?

There are some that have been "discriminated against" more than you, me for instance.  I could only get to £212.91, am I moaning about it ?  NO. Am I despondent because I was born 18 months too early ? NO. I am receiving more than I would have under the old rules just as you are. 

Got no reason to question COPE? Well each to his own, please. Plenty of surviving well funded GMP instead within a surviving contracted out occupational scheme, perhaps? Had any contracted out scheme wound up well before its time?

If you reached state retirement prior to April 2016 you would have only received that amount that you have since managed to add £44.24 to under those "woeful" transitional rules..

What about earned S2P that I assume was still payable to those who were not 100% contracted out and reached retirement before April 2016? My father died in 2016, at which time he was receiving £8,500 in old State pension plus £7,000pa from a contracted out occupational scheme pension into which he had contributed for around 25 years, with about 15 of them contracted out from 1978. He was an uneducated manual worker who "retired" a few years early at age approx. 60. The max nSP in 2016 was less than £8,500 but of course he was on the old arrangements which will have included some pre-1978 Additional State Pension payable with the basic SP from age 65. He will also have received GMP from age 65 within his occupational scheme amount. Of course he never needed to buy VC NI years, having worked non-stop from age 14. So, as I am in possession of his exact (lowish) earned income figures, and my mother's inherited additional pension after my father died, I really do not appreciate the very misleading comparison between a typical old rules basic pension (only) and a deficient post-2016 nSP entitlement. I really do not know how the government of the day in 2015/16 managed to pull the wool over so many eyes and keep it that way until now.

Dazed_and_C0nfused

1957DfurdPensionist said:

molerat said:

Where do I find the full details of calculation of my COPE?  What standards applied before the figures were foist upon us?

You ask DWP to produce it for you, they will do so upon request.  The vast majority are not interested or would not understand it anyway.  It will likely be a fairly long document.

Why was such a document never automatically provided?

So no.one here knows why I am discriminated against by being 6 or 7 months older than I am,

You are not being discriminated against.  Like everything else in life it is just the luck of your date of birth, not discrimination. If you want to blame someone blame your parents. 

Please @molerat, don't propound such skewed nonsense about age discrimination. The government may well claim exclusion from equality law, but I am sure they don't need forumites to muddy the water ridiculously like that and trying to defend their less well thought out decisions. Your lost £8.50pw may mean little to you, and evidently my lost £4.50pw you could care less about. Perhaps the numbers from your occupational pension(s) yielded more self interest?

There are some that have been "discriminated against" more than you, me for instance.  I could only get to £212.91, am I moaning about it ?  NO. Am I despondent because I was born 18 months too early ? NO. I am receiving more than I would have under the old rules just as you are. 

Got no reason to question COPE? Well each to his own, please. Plenty of surviving well funded GMP instead within a surviving contracted out occupational scheme, perhaps? Had any contracted out scheme wound up well before its time?

If you reached state retirement prior to April 2016 you would have only received that amount that you have since managed to add £44.24 to under those "woeful" transitional rules..

What about earned S2P that I assume was still payable to those who were not 100% contracted out and reached retirement before April 2016? My father died in 2016, at which time he was receiving £8,500 in old State pension plus £7,000pa from a contracted out occupational scheme pension into which he had contributed for around 25 years, with about 15 of them contracted out from 1978. He was an uneducated manual worker who "retired" a few years early at age approx. 60. The max nSP in 2016 was less than £8,500 but of course he was on the old arrangements which will have included some pre-1978 Additional State Pension payable with the basic SP from age 65. He will also have received GMP from age 65 within his occupational scheme amount. Of course he never needed to buy VC NI years, having worked non-stop from age 14. So, as I am in possession of his exact (lowish) earned income figures, and my mother's inherited additional pension after my father died, I really do not appreciate the very misleading comparison between a typical old rules basic pension (only) and a deficient post-2016 nSP entitlement. I really do not know how the government of the day in 2015/16 managed to pull the wool over so many eyes and keep it that way until now.

I think you will find there are a lot of winners under the new system.

It often takes some explaining before people realise how well they have done but there are a lot of people doing rather well from the change to nSP.

1957DfurdPensionist

Dazed_and_C0nfused said:

I think you will find there are a lot of winners under the new system.

It often takes some explaining before people realise how well they have done but there are a lot of people doing rather well from the change to nSP.

I thank you for your comments, D&C, but unfortunately I don't have access to the comparative data that might better justify what you think. I've just got good info from my close family's experience and my own. I have been paid partially for my legacy data analysis skills during my quite varied private sector career. I grew used to discovering unintended patterns and conseqences in legacy statistics from various sources including public sector sources. I take very little for granted except that c0ck-ups, unfair practices and discriminations happen all the time and are prone to getting glossed over if later they risk embarrassing someone.

Much of MSE's reputation is also built on exposing some of these things for the public good, is it not?

I have now got 43 full NI years including two full years when I was working in school holidays as a fifteen and sixteen year old, two more when I was working during university holidays and seven years VCs, with even now, 5 more years gaps possible but apparently useless to fill. Yet still I am told I cannot improve even one penny more towards a full nSP.

I was told I have £84pw COPE deduction way back in 2016 but like everyone else, except civil service insiders perhaps, I have been given no justfication data to show how the number was calculated even though I know that it covers contracted out periods to no less than three prematurely wound up DB schemes that ceased to exist before 2004 even though the original copped out contracting out sponsoring employers all still thrive in one guise or another to this day! That's the nonsense of COPE ...