Retirement for someone with no dependents

Bostonerimus1

pterri said:

Albermarle said:

Bostonerimus1 said:

barnstar2077 said:

Bostonerimus1 said:

The fees at Audely and the "suits" running it are somethings that put me right off. This advert for Audley is a bit "Hyacinth Bucket" and I just wouldn't want to end my days around the old people shown in the ad. Also they show lots of hotel like images and gloss over what care they provide and how much it costs if you fall and break a hip. So I'd be very careful. I'd prefer to be a long term resident in a genteel hotel in Harrogate or Scarborough where there's a turn over of interesting guests and a murder happens every other week.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xQQM8-UMRI4&ab_channel=AudleyVillages

This place looks amazing, if I had the money I would move in today!

Part of the issue is that by moving in you'd be quickly separated from your money and more with service fees and then if you ever need to sell you'd be charged some pretty steep exit fees. For people who like what Audely is selling it's important to look at the entire cost from beginning to end. Also Audely operate a program where they will do part exchange and buy your home from you to make it easier to get into their facility. You might see that as a convenience, I see it as potentially predatory.

You are not wrong, but these places seem increasingly popular, especially in the more traditionally prosperous parts of the UK . New ones are springing up all the time.
I suspect many of the residents have so much money, they do not really care too much about exit fees etc.
Not everyone is an MSEr !

I’m two decades away (touch wood) but yep, I’m not leaving money to anyone so exit fees are not my concern. The idea of comfortable supported housing is attractive, live off my DB and SP and use the house to buy a place? Dunno. A question for another time

Comfortable supported housing in retirement is what we all want, but does Audley provide that? What happens if you become ill and need care? Does that cost extra? Is it even available? The videos I've watched show active healthy people and don't talk about the number of grab bars in the bathroom etc.

Albermarle

Bostonerimus1 said:

pterri said:

Albermarle said:

Bostonerimus1 said:

barnstar2077 said:

Bostonerimus1 said:

The fees at Audely and the "suits" running it are somethings that put me right off. This advert for Audley is a bit "Hyacinth Bucket" and I just wouldn't want to end my days around the old people shown in the ad. Also they show lots of hotel like images and gloss over what care they provide and how much it costs if you fall and break a hip. So I'd be very careful. I'd prefer to be a long term resident in a genteel hotel in Harrogate or Scarborough where there's a turn over of interesting guests and a murder happens every other week.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xQQM8-UMRI4&ab_channel=AudleyVillages

This place looks amazing, if I had the money I would move in today!

Part of the issue is that by moving in you'd be quickly separated from your money and more with service fees and then if you ever need to sell you'd be charged some pretty steep exit fees. For people who like what Audely is selling it's important to look at the entire cost from beginning to end. Also Audely operate a program where they will do part exchange and buy your home from you to make it easier to get into their facility. You might see that as a convenience, I see it as potentially predatory.

You are not wrong, but these places seem increasingly popular, especially in the more traditionally prosperous parts of the UK . New ones are springing up all the time.
I suspect many of the residents have so much money, they do not really care too much about exit fees etc.
Not everyone is an MSEr !

I’m two decades away (touch wood) but yep, I’m not leaving money to anyone so exit fees are not my concern. The idea of comfortable supported housing is attractive, live off my DB and SP and use the house to buy a place? Dunno. A question for another time

Comfortable supported housing in retirement is what we all want, but does Audley provide that? What happens if you become ill and need care? Does that cost extra? Is it even available? The videos I've watched show active healthy people and don't talk about the number of grab bars in the bathroom etc.

They provide some limited free support/warden service.
If you need extra care they will be happy to arrange it ( at a cost of course).

Moonwolf

I think this is perhaps one of the areas where one has to shift away from the MSE mindset. 

My spouse is 15 years older than me so there is a good chance I will end up on my own.  I have to either leave money to my niblings who will do well anyway, to the taxman or spend it.

My spreadhseet that has no DC pot left, just DBs and the house when I am 90 is conservative. It may still be that I have got it all wrong and end up scrimping but if I run scenarios it looks almost as likely I'll end up with seven figures as nothing. 

Does "expensive" matter if I can keep my independence and I don't have another use for my money?  I know I'd prefer to live in a private residence on a complex with a lot of old people I didn't like than in a poor quality council placement in an old peoples home, that smells of wee, and a lot of old people I didn't like; and if it means I die with nothing, surely that is a win.

Albermarle

I think this is perhaps one of the areas where one has to shift away from the MSE mindset. 

Old habits die hard for the MiSErs on here ( like me  ).

Keith_Clunk

You only get one life, but  you are not restricted to only one country in which to live that life. There is a wonderful world out there to be experienced and explored. If you are single and have the means and/or passive income then it almost seems like a lost opportunity not to at least try. It does take deep breath and an element of bravery to take the leap but the experience can be very rewarding.

With regards to planning on living abroad, I will use Thailand in this case and assume you are from the UK.

The most essential thing in terms of preparation is getting sorted and organised in your home country first. Living in Thailand is the easy part, so long as you have access to funds and the HMRC government gateway if you plan on staying for more than a year. Test these things out prior to leaving the UK and ensure any bugs or issues are ironed out while you're still in your home country, far easier there.

Having a home address to receive replacement credit and debit cards and other important documentation is also essential. A trusted friend or family member is required. Remain registered with a local GP until you feel committed to your move.

Setup a foreign bank account while on holiday or during a reconnaissance trip, even if that means employing the services of an agent to assist you in the process. ATM fees from a local Thai bank don't exist, unless you stray from the province in which the account was setup. Withdrawing funds from a UK bank account in Thailand can become expensive with both withdrawal fees and poor exchange rates.

I use Wise (formerly TransferWise). Get this or a similar foreign exchange banking account setup before you leave. Wise has a UK based bank address so interbank transfers between your other UK banks are free of charge. Fx transfers from your Wise account to your Thai bank account (I use Bangkok Bank) are very reasonable. The Fx rates are those shown on Google precisely, plus a transfer fee. All very clear and transparent during the transfer process. Wise also does disposable online debit cards which can be used and deleted afterwards, useful when paying in a foreign currency for such things as airline tickets.

One stumbling block moving to another country can be that of visas and the rules and requirements that come attached. The Kingdom of Thailand is a developing nation, perhaps described as a frontier country, so there is a certain flexibility with rules and laws which comes with that. I use a visa agent and always have. There are costs associated but I consider that money well spent. If you are 50 years of age or over and read online the requirements for obtaining a Non-Immigrant 'O' visa (retirement visa), they will not match what occurs when you arrive on a visa-waiver on arrival and visit a visa agent within the first week of arrival, you may find you never have to leave the country again legally for the rest of your life, if you so choose. Much to do with visas can fall under the discretion of the immigration officer involved, who legally passes your case via your visa agent who he is familiar with. Do your own research on which visa agent to use.

My agent has also replaced my British passport with me never needing to visit the British Embassy in Bangkok. It will need doing again next year. On the subject of passports, make sure you have at least 12 months validity. 

In general, in addition to the above, just ensure any loose ends are tied-up at home. Close unused bank accounts etc..

I wish anyone who takes the plunge to live overseas the very best of luck with your new life.

Bostonerimus1

Keith_Clunk said:

You only get one life, but  you are not restricted to only one country in which to live that life. There is a wonderful world out there to be experienced and explored. If you are single and have the means and/or passive income then it almost seems like a lost opportunity not to at least try. It does take deep breath and an element of bravery to take the leap but the experience can be very rewarding.

With regards to planning on living abroad, I will use Thailand in this case and assume you are from the UK.

The most essential thing in terms of preparation is getting sorted and organised in your home country first. Living in Thailand is the easy part, so long as you have access to funds and the HMRC government gateway if you plan on staying for more than a year. Test these things out prior to leaving the UK and ensure any bugs or issues are ironed out while you're still in your home country, far easier there.

Having a home address to receive replacement credit and debit cards and other important documentation is also essential. A trusted friend or family member is required. Remain registered with a local GP until you feel committed to your move.

Setup a foreign bank account while on holiday or during a reconnaissance trip, even if that means employing the services of an agent to assist you in the process. ATM fees from a local Thai bank don't exist, unless you stray from the province in which the account was setup. Withdrawing funds from a UK bank account in Thailand can become expensive with both withdrawal fees and poor exchange rates.

I use Wise (formerly TransferWise). Get this or a similar foreign exchange banking account setup before you leave. Wise has a UK based bank address so interbank transfers between your other UK banks are free of charge. Fx transfers from your Wise account to your Thai bank account (I use Bangkok Bank) are very reasonable. The Fx rates are those shown on Google precisely, plus a transfer fee. All very clear and transparent during the transfer process. Wise also does disposable online debit cards which can be used and deleted afterwards, useful when paying in a foreign currency for such things as airline tickets.

One stumbling block moving to another country can be that of visas and the rules and requirements that come attached. The Kingdom of Thailand is a developing nation, perhaps described as a frontier country, so there is a certain flexibility with rules and laws which comes with that. I use a visa agent and always have. There are costs associated but I consider that money well spent. If you are 50 years of age or over and read online the requirements for obtaining a Non-Immigrant 'O' visa (retirement visa), they will not match what occurs when you arrive on a visa-waiver on arrival and visit a visa agent within the first week of arrival, you may find you never have to leave the country again legally for the rest of your life, if you so choose. Much to do with visas can fall under the discretion of the immigration officer involved, who legally passes your case via your visa agent who he is familiar with. Do your own research on which visa agent to use.

My agent has also replaced my British passport with me never needing to visit the British Embassy in Bangkok. It will need doing again next year. On the subject of passports, make sure you have at least 12 months validity. 

In general, in addition to the above, just ensure any loose ends are tied-up at home. Close unused bank accounts etc..

I wish anyone who takes the plunge to live overseas the very best of luck with your new life.

All very good advice. I'd like to add a general thought that it's a good idea to take any move slowly so that you know what your are getting into. Knowing what a normal day is like is important, what's it like going to the supermarket or driving a car? Having easy access to financial accounts in the UK and wherever you decide to live is obviously vital and if you need 2FA make sure it doesn't depend on having a UK phone number.

I emigrated from the UK to the US when I was young and did it quite quickly, but I had a job and was surrounded by lots of other young people some of who had also moved to the US so it was fun. I'm now considering a move back to the UK and it's far more complicated just because of finances and all the stuff I've accumulated. Being older I also think change is just more difficult in general. So last autumn I spend 6 weeks in the UK to visit family and casually look at houses. I'll probably spend a couple of months in the UK this summer and do some more research. It's also motivated me to declutter and organize things like wills and simplify my finances.

Storcko14

Everywhere has its pros and cons. When I first visited Thailand I stopped in Phuket for two nights in a guesthouse run by an Englishman. He was sitting on a bar stool playing backgammon with his cheap cigarettes and a Thai woman standing at his side keeping his beer topped up. He had been there for a few years and I asked him if he liked living in Thailand and he replied 'It's better than Bolton'. That stuck with me: we all make our choices based on our preferences and our options - it's a personal call. Or at least it should be.

Reminds me of my first time in Thailand in my mid 20s when I bumped into an older English guy in a guest house in Hua Hin.  I explained what I was doing - essentially not taking life too seriously and having fun before getting career serious.  He looked at me long and hard, deep drag on the fag, barked for another Mekong whiskey to the Thai owner (who I suspect might have been his ladyfriend) before telling me i had better crack on with earning the cash so I could stop slumming it and be able to retire to Thailand in luxury.  He looked about my age now - late 50s - but I remember thinking that's exactly how I'm not going to do it.  Different strokes and all that.

JayRitchie

Albermarle said:

JayRitchie said:

I'm in a somewhat similar position - possibly with lower assets than others on the thread.

I've considered buying a suitable property to age into. Maybe a small flat where one wouldn't need car. I'd hope that would allow scope for travelling cheaply without a lot of capital tied up and less fear of not downsizing/ right sizing until its too late.

If anyone has thoughts, experience or research to share as to whether this is a good way to go I'd appreciate it.

It is not a bad idea, but a couple of things to be aware of.

Retirement/over 55's flats ( McCarthy and Stone type) are normally a poor investment, especially if bought new. They can be difficult to sell even when heavily discounted.
Ever increasing service charges, especially in larger blocks, are becoming a big problem.

I read somewhere that some older people are moving into town centre flats, where they have been converted from other uses, like empty shops. Everything on hand , buses, trains, shops, places to drink/eat etc. Probably not far from a GP surgery or hospital .
Presume it depends on the town and the build quality.  Some town centres are a bit desolate/rough, whilst others can be desirable/posh.
I suppose some mid range town in terms of desirability/price/size would be the compromise.  

Many thanks.

I've found an area with almost identical flats in non retirement blocks to those in retirement blocks. The differences are mainly communal lounges, on site manager and having lifts. The flats in retirement blocks are cheaper but have much higher charges. I'm working out the payback period given lower up front expenditure! I think moving in early 70s might be worthwhile but not before that without a specific health reason to justify the cost.

itsthelittlethings

I'm probably going to buy an annuity. I have no downwards dependents and this won't change.