Rate my SIPP - ITV high conviction

Cobbler_tone

MeteredOut said:

Cobbler_tone said:

vacheron said:

MallyGirl said:

artyboy said:

Well I'm normally quite diversified, but I did find myself having about £400k in the single stock of my now ex-employer at one point. Made a very good turn on it. Could have made an even better one if I'd held it until today.

And of course could have lost a fortune if I held it until next week. Maybe. Who knows.

That's sort of the point...

many of my colleagues hold on to all the SAYE shares they have bought over the years. Now that CGT is so low a threshold it is going to cost them a lot to liquidate. The eggs in one basket phrase means I sell as soon as the options mature

I'll second myself as someone guilty of this. 

My last scheme in 2015-2020 upon maturity could have been fully sold 2 days spanning the financial year. Now with the CGT reduction and further gains in the price, it will take me and my wife almost 15 years between us to fully extract the gains using our current full CGT allowances! 

I always read and hear about CGT at my own place. The advice needs to be check your scheme rules and implication of current and future CGT liabilities. The amount of our people who think they have to pay it but don't....in a nutshell, offload them when you leave at the latest.

In my experience, if tax is not due on sale, it will have been "paid" on award/vesting.

I've been in employee share schemes where you were awarded (or had vested) shares, and a % of them were sold at vest/award to cover the tax element, with the remainder going into a employee share account. The value of those sold for tax was then included in the annual P60 for trueing up.

Don't know but in our scheme I have sold shares for over 20 years at a significant gain and (as per the rules on previous post) never had an issue with CGT as it doesn't apply. The only issues I know people have had is when they have left the company and had shares transferred as opposed to offloading them all.

MeteredOut

Cobbler_tone said:

MeteredOut said:

Cobbler_tone said:

vacheron said:

MallyGirl said:

artyboy said:

Well I'm normally quite diversified, but I did find myself having about £400k in the single stock of my now ex-employer at one point. Made a very good turn on it. Could have made an even better one if I'd held it until today.

And of course could have lost a fortune if I held it until next week. Maybe. Who knows.

That's sort of the point...

many of my colleagues hold on to all the SAYE shares they have bought over the years. Now that CGT is so low a threshold it is going to cost them a lot to liquidate. The eggs in one basket phrase means I sell as soon as the options mature

I'll second myself as someone guilty of this. 

My last scheme in 2015-2020 upon maturity could have been fully sold 2 days spanning the financial year. Now with the CGT reduction and further gains in the price, it will take me and my wife almost 15 years between us to fully extract the gains using our current full CGT allowances! 

I always read and hear about CGT at my own place. The advice needs to be check your scheme rules and implication of current and future CGT liabilities. The amount of our people who think they have to pay it but don't....in a nutshell, offload them when you leave at the latest.

In my experience, if tax is not due on sale, it will have been "paid" on award/vesting.

I've been in employee share schemes where you were awarded (or had vested) shares, and a % of them were sold at vest/award to cover the tax element, with the remainder going into a employee share account. The value of those sold for tax was then included in the annual P60 for trueing up.

Don't know but in our scheme I have sold shares for over 20 years at a significant gain and (as per the rules on previous post) never had an issue with CGT as it doesn't apply. The only issues I know people have had is when they have left the company and had shares transferred as opposed to offloading them all.

So you buy/are given your employers shares, which you later sell, and you pay absolutely no tax - in the form of witholding tax (eg, portion of shares sold), income tax or CGT - on the difference between what you paid for them (which could be zero) and what you sold them for? Nice little earner

EDIT: Is it this?

https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/media/5a7a1c68ed915d6d99f5d3a4/exemption_for_employee_owner_shares.pdf.pdf

Sarahspangles

MeteredOut said:

Cobbler_tone said:

MeteredOut said:

Cobbler_tone said:

vacheron said:

MallyGirl said:

artyboy said:

Well I'm normally quite diversified, but I did find myself having about £400k in the single stock of my now ex-employer at one point. Made a very good turn on it. Could have made an even better one if I'd held it until today.

And of course could have lost a fortune if I held it until next week. Maybe. Who knows.

That's sort of the point...

many of my colleagues hold on to all the SAYE shares they have bought over the years. Now that CGT is so low a threshold it is going to cost them a lot to liquidate. The eggs in one basket phrase means I sell as soon as the options mature

I'll second myself as someone guilty of this. 

My last scheme in 2015-2020 upon maturity could have been fully sold 2 days spanning the financial year. Now with the CGT reduction and further gains in the price, it will take me and my wife almost 15 years between us to fully extract the gains using our current full CGT allowances! 

I always read and hear about CGT at my own place. The advice needs to be check your scheme rules and implication of current and future CGT liabilities. The amount of our people who think they have to pay it but don't....in a nutshell, offload them when you leave at the latest.

In my experience, if tax is not due on sale, it will have been "paid" on award/vesting.

I've been in employee share schemes where you were awarded (or had vested) shares, and a % of them were sold at vest/award to cover the tax element, with the remainder going into a employee share account. The value of those sold for tax was then included in the annual P60 for trueing up.

Don't know but in our scheme I have sold shares for over 20 years at a significant gain and (as per the rules on previous post) never had an issue with CGT as it doesn't apply. The only issues I know people have had is when they have left the company and had shares transferred as opposed to offloading them all.

So you buy/are given your employers shares, which you later sell, and you pay absolutely no tax - in the form of witholding tax (eg, portion of shares sold), income tax or CGT - on the difference between what you paid for them (which could be zero) and what you sold them for? Nice little earner

EDIT: Is it this?

https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/media/5a7a1c68ed915d6d99f5d3a4/exemption_for_employee_owner_shares.pdf.pdf

I’m familiar with SIP and SAYE. With the first you typically sell at the end of a five year period but there’s a rolling scheme so you’re always able to continue to invest. My OH had to sell his remaining holdings when he retired, and promptly bought a similar value of shares through his ISA - with a direct competitor!

Bostonerimus1

FIREDreamer said:

penners324 said:

Juno_Moneta said:

The main thing that attracts me to ITV is that they have a ‘hidden’ asset “ITV Studios” which is generally thought to have a value on its own of around £3bn and is on the brink of being carved up (eg article today below). 

However the value (market cap) of the entire ITV Group (which owns it) is just £2.9bn currently. So by hidden I mean ‘value not recognised’. 

It reminds me of Wall Street asset stripping!

Well I think it’s worth a punt. Watch this space. 

https://www.broadcastnow.co.uk/broadcast-international/potential-itvs-deal-supported-by-investors-report/5201770.article

For balance - there are plenty of reasons NOT to invest in ITV - eg some think ITV Studios isn’t worth that much. 

And with this position size, £30k up days are as common as £30k down days - so a strong stomach is needed. No share is up, up, up every day.

States on the article the share price has gone from 277p to 77p in 10 years.

If it carries on that trend....

You notice the difference in Corrie. Hardly anyone in the Rovers now as cast is paid per episode (and are complaining or leaving). The scripts and plots defy credulity. Look at a few years ago and it was packed. In real life, pub footfall hasn’t reduced that much. Emmerdale probably the same but I don’t watch that. The Queen Vic in Eastenders is full probably thanks to taxpayers’ money. ITV doesn’t look on the up to me which is a shame. Dead cat bounce maybe.

"The Rest is Entertainment" podcast did an episode on the state of these soaps. Emmerdale viewership is holding up the best, but they have all fallen from peak viewerships of 10s of millions to a few million. That's still good, but the trend is downwards, just like ITV's stock price.

Sarahspangles

Bostonerimus1 said:

FIREDreamer said:

penners324 said:

Juno_Moneta said:

The main thing that attracts me to ITV is that they have a ‘hidden’ asset “ITV Studios” which is generally thought to have a value on its own of around £3bn and is on the brink of being carved up (eg article today below). 

However the value (market cap) of the entire ITV Group (which owns it) is just £2.9bn currently. So by hidden I mean ‘value not recognised’. 

It reminds me of Wall Street asset stripping!

Well I think it’s worth a punt. Watch this space. 

https://www.broadcastnow.co.uk/broadcast-international/potential-itvs-deal-supported-by-investors-report/5201770.article

For balance - there are plenty of reasons NOT to invest in ITV - eg some think ITV Studios isn’t worth that much. 

And with this position size, £30k up days are as common as £30k down days - so a strong stomach is needed. No share is up, up, up every day.

States on the article the share price has gone from 277p to 77p in 10 years.

If it carries on that trend....

You notice the difference in Corrie. Hardly anyone in the Rovers now as cast is paid per episode (and are complaining or leaving). The scripts and plots defy credulity. Look at a few years ago and it was packed. In real life, pub footfall hasn’t reduced that much. Emmerdale probably the same but I don’t watch that. The Queen Vic in Eastenders is full probably thanks to taxpayers’ money. ITV doesn’t look on the up to me which is a shame. Dead cat bounce maybe.

"The Rest is Entertainment" podcast did an episode on the state of these soaps. Emmerdale viewership is holding up the best, but they have all fallen from peak viewerships of 10s of millions to a few million. That's still good, but the trend is downwards, just like ITV's stock price.

I think the demographic of this board may mean we’re less aware that TV watching is in decline. Neither of my 20-somethings even own one. I don’t watch TV programming at all, though OH does. I subscribe to National Theatre online and watch this on ‘his’ TV, but it’s starting to make more sense for me to go to the ‘NT Live’ screenings at the cinema. He’s already opted not to get Sky Sports in favour of walking up to the local Club.

FIREDreamer

Sarahspangles said:

Bostonerimus1 said:

FIREDreamer said:

penners324 said:

Juno_Moneta said:

The main thing that attracts me to ITV is that they have a ‘hidden’ asset “ITV Studios” which is generally thought to have a value on its own of around £3bn and is on the brink of being carved up (eg article today below). 

However the value (market cap) of the entire ITV Group (which owns it) is just £2.9bn currently. So by hidden I mean ‘value not recognised’. 

It reminds me of Wall Street asset stripping!

Well I think it’s worth a punt. Watch this space. 

https://www.broadcastnow.co.uk/broadcast-international/potential-itvs-deal-supported-by-investors-report/5201770.article

For balance - there are plenty of reasons NOT to invest in ITV - eg some think ITV Studios isn’t worth that much. 

And with this position size, £30k up days are as common as £30k down days - so a strong stomach is needed. No share is up, up, up every day.

States on the article the share price has gone from 277p to 77p in 10 years.

If it carries on that trend....

You notice the difference in Corrie. Hardly anyone in the Rovers now as cast is paid per episode (and are complaining or leaving). The scripts and plots defy credulity. Look at a few years ago and it was packed. In real life, pub footfall hasn’t reduced that much. Emmerdale probably the same but I don’t watch that. The Queen Vic in Eastenders is full probably thanks to taxpayers’ money. ITV doesn’t look on the up to me which is a shame. Dead cat bounce maybe.

"The Rest is Entertainment" podcast did an episode on the state of these soaps. Emmerdale viewership is holding up the best, but they have all fallen from peak viewerships of 10s of millions to a few million. That's still good, but the trend is downwards, just like ITV's stock price.

I think the demographic of this board may mean we’re less aware that TV watching is in decline. Neither of my 20-somethings even own one. I don’t watch TV programming at all, though OH does. I subscribe to National Theatre online and watch this on ‘his’ TV, but it’s starting to make more sense for me to go to the ‘NT Live’ screenings at the cinema. He’s already opted not to get Sky Sports in favour of walking up to the local Club.

I am 60. I watch more hours of youtube than terrestial/satellite television channels.

Bostonerimus1

Sarahspangles said:

Bostonerimus1 said:

FIREDreamer said:

penners324 said:

Juno_Moneta said:

The main thing that attracts me to ITV is that they have a ‘hidden’ asset “ITV Studios” which is generally thought to have a value on its own of around £3bn and is on the brink of being carved up (eg article today below). 

However the value (market cap) of the entire ITV Group (which owns it) is just £2.9bn currently. So by hidden I mean ‘value not recognised’. 

It reminds me of Wall Street asset stripping!

Well I think it’s worth a punt. Watch this space. 

https://www.broadcastnow.co.uk/broadcast-international/potential-itvs-deal-supported-by-investors-report/5201770.article

For balance - there are plenty of reasons NOT to invest in ITV - eg some think ITV Studios isn’t worth that much. 

And with this position size, £30k up days are as common as £30k down days - so a strong stomach is needed. No share is up, up, up every day.

States on the article the share price has gone from 277p to 77p in 10 years.

If it carries on that trend....

You notice the difference in Corrie. Hardly anyone in the Rovers now as cast is paid per episode (and are complaining or leaving). The scripts and plots defy credulity. Look at a few years ago and it was packed. In real life, pub footfall hasn’t reduced that much. Emmerdale probably the same but I don’t watch that. The Queen Vic in Eastenders is full probably thanks to taxpayers’ money. ITV doesn’t look on the up to me which is a shame. Dead cat bounce maybe.

"The Rest is Entertainment" podcast did an episode on the state of these soaps. Emmerdale viewership is holding up the best, but they have all fallen from peak viewerships of 10s of millions to a few million. That's still good, but the trend is downwards, just like ITV's stock price.

I think the demographic of this board may mean we’re less aware that TV watching is in decline. Neither of my 20-somethings even own one. I don’t watch TV programming at all, though OH does. I subscribe to National Theatre online and watch this on ‘his’ TV, but it’s starting to make more sense for me to go to the ‘NT Live’ screenings at the cinema. He’s already opted not to get Sky Sports in favour of walking up to the local Club.

Yes! I do NT Live too. When I was at college I would get £5 standby tickets for the NT.
I "cut the cord" a while back and so still watch some terrestrial TV which is mostly now Miss Scarlet, All Creatures Great and Small and old Columbo re-runs along with Youtube, Radio 4 and lots of podcasts - I was just listening to Private Eye's Page 94 podcast in the car, I trust Private Eye more than any other publication. I watch football highlight on Youtube and go to a local bar with friends to watch Premiership games live on the weekend.

bjorn_toby_wilde

Terrestrial TV must certainly be feeling the squeeze from the loss of younger viewers.

Neither of my sons has a TV licence as they don’t watch terrestrial. It’s all about subscription channels and online content for the younger generations.

Cobbler_tone

MeteredOut said:

Cobbler_tone said:

MeteredOut said:

Cobbler_tone said:

vacheron said:

MallyGirl said:

artyboy said:

Well I'm normally quite diversified, but I did find myself having about £400k in the single stock of my now ex-employer at one point. Made a very good turn on it. Could have made an even better one if I'd held it until today.

And of course could have lost a fortune if I held it until next week. Maybe. Who knows.

That's sort of the point...

many of my colleagues hold on to all the SAYE shares they have bought over the years. Now that CGT is so low a threshold it is going to cost them a lot to liquidate. The eggs in one basket phrase means I sell as soon as the options mature

I'll second myself as someone guilty of this. 

My last scheme in 2015-2020 upon maturity could have been fully sold 2 days spanning the financial year. Now with the CGT reduction and further gains in the price, it will take me and my wife almost 15 years between us to fully extract the gains using our current full CGT allowances! 

I always read and hear about CGT at my own place. The advice needs to be check your scheme rules and implication of current and future CGT liabilities. The amount of our people who think they have to pay it but don't....in a nutshell, offload them when you leave at the latest.

In my experience, if tax is not due on sale, it will have been "paid" on award/vesting.

I've been in employee share schemes where you were awarded (or had vested) shares, and a % of them were sold at vest/award to cover the tax element, with the remainder going into a employee share account. The value of those sold for tax was then included in the annual P60 for trueing up.

Don't know but in our scheme I have sold shares for over 20 years at a significant gain and (as per the rules on previous post) never had an issue with CGT as it doesn't apply. The only issues I know people have had is when they have left the company and had shares transferred as opposed to offloading them all.

So you buy/are given your employers shares, which you later sell, and you pay absolutely no tax - in the form of witholding tax (eg, portion of shares sold), income tax or CGT - on the difference between what you paid for them (which could be zero) and what you sold them for? Nice little earner

EDIT: Is it this?

https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/media/5a7a1c68ed915d6d99f5d3a4/exemption_for_employee_owner_shares.pdf.pdf

The gov rules are you can invest a maximum of £1,800 a year in a company scheme from earnings. It is taken via salary sacrifice at £150 per month, i.e. £90 net for a 40% tax payer. The company then gives you a matching investment up to 3% of salary or £150 max, so usually £150. Then they buy £300 of shares on pay day which go into two separate buckets.
After 3 years the shares you bought are released tax free, after 5 years the matching shares are tax free. Some shares are taxable if you sell them early, some are locked in. If you retire or get made redundant all shares are released tax free. If you leave for another job you lose the last year of matching shares.
The shares maturing today are worth around £50 and the average purchase price was £20, so the £90 is now valued at £750. It’s a good scheme and most employees are in it. Some employees on £30k a year have £100k+ in there as a ‘rainy day’ fund but I never leave anything like that in there, £30k max. If you sell in the scheme there is no CGT. Just a perk really and some might want the £90 in their pocket today.

kinger101

Juno_Moneta said:

incus432 said:

Juno_Moneta said:

A note about diversification: 

I know it’s important. I’ve done it all my life. Had plenty of bits and pieces of ETFs like VWRL. But sometimes you have to just go for it. That’s what high conviction means to me. 

“Diversification may preserve wealth, but concentration builds wealth.

- Warren Buffett 

A note about dividends: 

No dividends are guaranteed- that’s clear. 

ITV currently pays 5p a year. 

That means I receive £52,566 py. 

Enough to retire on one day if it continues…!

My sister's only investments were shares in Natwest -she worked for them for 30 years., getting them cheap. She lost it all. 

Trusting in one company is insane

incus432 said:

Juno_Moneta said:

A note about diversification: 

I know it’s important. I’ve done it all my life. Had plenty of bits and pieces of ETFs like VWRL. But sometimes you have to just go for it. That’s what high conviction means to me. 

“Diversification may preserve wealth, but concentration builds wealth.

- Warren Buffett 

A note about dividends: 

No dividends are guaranteed- that’s clear. 

ITV currently pays 5p a year. 

That means I receive £52,566 py. 

Enough to retire on one day if it continues…!

My sister's only investments were shares in Natwest -she worked for them for 30 years., getting them cheap. She lost it all. 

Trusting in one company is insane

Same here! In my past I worked 20+ years at NatWest then RBS. 

I lived through my SAYE schemes dropping from £17 to 22p! Tough times. 

And you didn't learn anything from that?