Having a nightmare trying to buy

bell2020

Mr.Generous said:

gwynlas said:

Are you tenants of your FIL?
Is he a responsible lanlord providing gas checks etc.?
You could play hardball and tell him that you will be unable to vacate for a sale as he is making it impossible for you to proceed with your purchase

I wouldn't do this unless you don't want the gifted £25k. Maybe look at a cheaper house, the money gifted from 2 relatives must be enough for a deposit surely? If you have zero savings yourself I'd be wondering how you will manage with home ownership, quite a few other costs will hit you when you buy a property.

We are already trying to purchase a smaller property, that we’ve been able to secure for a cheaper price than asking price due to vendor being in a care home. Plus it needs renovating. The funds we are due to receive after the sale would cover the costs of renovating. 

We have 5k savings ourselves. We can manage with ownership, we just don’t have thousands required for a house deposit like many families out there. We have children, I only work 3 days, we’re just not in the position to buy ourselves, doesn’t mean we can’t pay the mortgage repayments. 

Bonniepurple

bell2020 said:

QrizB said:

OP's relative has form for being difficult:

https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/6217273/mortgage-and-charge-on-property

https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/6217271/charge-on-property-and-mortgage-application

I'm assuming the property now being sold is the one the OP was hoping to buy in those previous threads.

You are correct. We were unable to purchase the property. It sat empty for 4 months and he threatened to put it on the market whilst we and our children lived in a caravan. He then decided we could rent it. So we’ve been renting it ever since. Now he wants to sell it to free up assets. He’s gifting a deposit instead but obviously that’s not straight forward either and he’s being uncooperative with this too!! 

I would be looking at rentals elsewhere to be honest. Not ideal, but it gives you more options than you currently have. I have a feeling that even if he did the documentation for the deposit he’d rescind it at the last moment.  Get out of his clutches and he might be more amenable.

MynameisMichaelCane

"He’s just a very private man (and a wealthy, well known local business man) who doesn’t want to send his bank statements to anyone. Which I understand to a certain extent. But it’s a legal requirement and he’s preventing us from progressing any further. "
Grrr, this makes me mad. He is surely entitled to his privacy? Why do we have systems and laws that make life so difficult for normal people? I understand that it is about money laundering, but the premise seems to be guilty until proven innocent. People should not, in my opinion, have to prove that they are not money laundering unless there are strong grounds for suspecting that they have been acting illegally. 

Herzlos

MynameisMichaelCane said:

"He’s just a very private man (and a wealthy, well known local business man) who doesn’t want to send his bank statements to anyone. Which I understand to a certain extent. But it’s a legal requirement and he’s preventing us from progressing any further. "
Grrr, this makes me mad. He is surely entitled to his privacy? Why do we have systems and laws that make life so difficult for normal people? I understand that it is about money laundering, but the premise seems to be guilty until proven innocent. People should not, in my opinion, have to prove that they are not money laundering unless there are strong grounds for suspecting that they have been acting illegally. 

He's not really losing any privacy by showing the source of funds to a solicitor. It'll be kept confidential.

He's just being stubborn and harming his kids prospects.

Plus money laundering is a very real concern, so they quite reasonably need to ensure that the huge sums of money involved are accounted for properly. As a businessman he should know that.

Herzlos

Can you get him to pay you via the business instead, and show business accounts?

Or can you use the money for something else to raise the money for a deposit? LIke selling a car and having him replace it later. Though given how difficult he's being I'd be wary about being left stranded when he changes his mind.

What happened to the idea of you buying the existing house from him at a discount? That'd solve both problems surely?

MynameisMichaelCane

"Now the stumbling block - he’s signed a gifted deposit form. However he’s point blank refusing to provide any documentation for proof of funds. "
I've just read this again and I may have got the wrong end of the stick. Is it to do with money laundering or is it just that the lawyers want to see that he actually has the funds he is promising to give? If it is the latter, then it could surely be solved by him giving you the money now, then you could provide a bank statement to show you have received it? 

user1977

MynameisMichaelCane said:

"Now the stumbling block - he’s signed a gifted deposit form. However he’s point blank refusing to provide any documentation for proof of funds. "
I've just read this again and I may have got the wrong end of the stick. Is it to do with money laundering or is it just that the lawyers want to see that he actually has the funds he is promising to give?

It's the former. Solicitors need to see evidence of where funds have come from.

If there were no such checks it would be an amazingly simple way of laundering vast amounts of money at a time. If he's willing to trust his bank (which presumably employs thousands of people) with his financial info, why not a handful of people at the OP's solicitor?

No19v87

Only options I can see:

1. Grandparent gifts the whole sum (25k + original 15k). Father in law sends grandparent 25k after it’s all done and dusted.*

2. Move out, take the 25k from him now and rent somewhere for 6-12 months, keeping the 25k in your bank account and you’ll be able to buy at that stage.**
3. Persuade him to provide the documents needed or if he is happier to, ask him to pay it through the business bank account and send those statements instead of his personal ones. I assume his accountant already sees his business bank account so a solicitor glancing at them is unlikely to be an additional encroachment on his privacy.***
4. Divorce your husband and find a new husband without such a difficult father.

*Not sure this is totally legal or morally correct.

**Means you lose the house you’ve currently found and you’ll have to be strict not to dip into the 25k for possibly 12 months.

***Sounds unlikely he will comply, but you never know.

To be honest, I appreciate people get incorrectly obsessed with their ‘privacy’ but this screams red flags all over in from the father in laws point of view. Highly probable there is something on his statements he doesn’t want someone to see. Get it sorted and have no financial dependence or link with him in the future.

No19v87

MynameisMichaelCane said:

"He’s just a very private man (and a wealthy, well known local business man) who doesn’t want to send his bank statements to anyone. Which I understand to a certain extent. But it’s a legal requirement and he’s preventing us from progressing any further. "
Grrr, this makes me mad. He is surely entitled to his privacy? Why do we have systems and laws that make life so difficult for normal people? I understand that it is about money laundering, but the premise seems to be guilty until proven innocent. People should not, in my opinion, have to prove that they are not money laundering unless there are strong grounds for suspecting that they have been acting illegally. 

It doesn’t make anything difficult for ‘normal people’ though, does it? If you’re a normal person you’re not doing anything illegal and have no reason to not evidence your source of funds. This is of course a transaction you are choosing to undertake that you don’t have to or have no right to.

Just because you might have incorrect beliefs on how that data/information will be used or misconceptions about who would give two hoots about your transactions on your bank statement, doesn’t mean it’s an actual problem.

What would ‘strong grounds for suspecting’ look like in your scenario? Asking banks and solicitors who deal with hundreds/thousands cases a year to get suspicion from what? A hunch? Smoke signals? The days of having a local banker and solicitor who know their customers is long gone. 

bell2020

No19v87 said:

Only options I can see:

1. Grandparent gifts the whole sum (25k + original 15k). Father in law sends grandparent 25k after it’s all done and dusted.*

2. Move out, take the 25k from him now and rent somewhere for 6-12 months, keeping the 25k in your bank account and you’ll be able to buy at that stage.**
3. Persuade him to provide the documents needed or if he is happier to, ask him to pay it through the business bank account and send those statements instead of his personal ones. I assume his accountant already sees his business bank account so a solicitor glancing at them is unlikely to be an additional encroachment on his privacy.***
4. Divorce your husband and find a new husband without such a difficult father.

*Not sure this is totally legal or morally correct.

**Means you lose the house you’ve currently found and you’ll have to be strict not to dip into the 25k for possibly 12 months.

***Sounds unlikely he will comply, but you never know.

To be honest, I appreciate people get incorrectly obsessed with their ‘privacy’ but this screams red flags all over in from the father in laws point of view. Highly probable there is something on his statements he doesn’t want someone to see. Get it sorted and have no financial dependence or link with him in the future.

We are doing similar to option 1. Without my father in law knowing, my Grandad is supplying the full gifted deposit. He is saying he doesn’t want it back as he’s basically withdrawing funds from Scottish widows which would have been inheritance anyway. Waiting for that to come through this week. 

We will just inform FiL when his money is needed. He’ll transfer to my husband. I’d like to actually send that money to my grandad to be honest but I’m not sure if I’m able to do that legally?? 

But I’m hoping this is the best way round it. We both can’t wait to cut ties with FIL and no longer be under his control!! 

Thanks everyone for your advice. 

Mortgage application will be going in this week hopefully. Hoping it’s a quick and smooth process to make up for the last 3 weeks!!