Would joining a union be worth it in this potential scenario?

ChasingtheWelshdream

I work for local government and there are rumours of imminent staff cuts and restructures.  So far the senior management refuse to comment or discuss, but the provisional budget implies the cuts are indeed coming.

I myself am on a fixed-term contract that may be affected - eg not renewed - and HR have confirmed I would be entitled to redeployment or redundancy settlement under my T&Cs. I am quite  happy - and would prefer - to take redundancy and not go down the redeployment route.

However, our policy states that rejection of a suitable redeployment position could forfeit the right to any redundancy settlement.

I have a good understanding of employment law and am generally willing to represent myself, but I am slightly worried that I could be forced into a redeployed position I don't want. Would it be worth joining the union (GMB I believe) in case of this event, to argue instead for redundancy? Or would it be more likely to be cut-and-dried and I would have no option to but to accept any position offered anyway?

In essence, would a union have any more clout that myself to state my case and wishes?

MattMattMattUK

ChasingtheWelshdream said:

I work for local government and there are rumours of imminent staff cuts and restructures.  So far the senior management refuse to comment or discuss, but the provisional budget implies the cuts are indeed coming.

They will not be allowed to until they are ready to announce them. 

ChasingtheWelshdream said:

I myself am on a fixed-term contract that may be affected - eg not renewed - and HR have confirmed I would be entitled to redeployment or redundancy settlement under my T&Cs. I am quite  happy - and would prefer - to take redundancy and not go down the redeployment route.

However, our policy states that rejection of a suitable redeployment position could forfeit the right to any redundancy settlement.

It can, it depends on the contract in place, the circumstances of what is happening, and the roles.

ChasingtheWelshdream said:

I have a good understanding of employment law and am generally willing to represent myself, but I am slightly worried that I could be forced into a redeployed position I don't want. Would it be worth joining the union (GMB I believe) in case of this event, to argue instead for redundancy? Or would it be more likely to be cut-and-dried and I would have no option to but to accept any position offered anyway?

They will either offer it or they will not. With it being local government they will almost certainly take legal advice first so be fairly solid in their position. 

ChasingtheWelshdream said:

In essence, would a union have any more clout that myself to state my case and wishes?

Probably not. It might give you cheaper access to legal advice and representation if you did go down that route, but they will not take it on just because you want them to, only if they think that the employer is in the wrong and that they have a realistic chance of winning. 

Voyager2002

Note that a union will not help with a problem that you knew about at the time you joined.

Hoenir

ChasingtheWelshdream said:

However, our policy states that rejection of a suitable redeployment position could forfeit the right to any redundancy settlement.

That's perfectly reasonable. A Union membership is unlikely to gain you any traction on the matter. What grounds would you be citing? 

Savvy_Sue

Voyager2002 said:

Note that a union will not help with a problem that you knew about at the time you joined.

Well, he doesn't KNOW about it yet, does he? But good point, the time to join is before you need them. 

One situation where the union might be useful is on the question of what is 'suitable'. For example, nursery staff (working with children) offered transfer to Parks, with their role being in the Cemeteries and Crematoria section. I believe that was successfully argued as unsuitable in the end. The employer might take the OP more seriously if they know the union is going to be involved. 

Or - and I hesitate to suggest such a thing of local government - a less than scrupulous manager may find grounds for misconduct leading to dismissal. I'd definitely want the union with me if that happened. 

ChasingtheWelshdream

Thank you.

Of course, I have no grounds at all yet to argue against any redeployment until, or if, it happens. 

My gut feeling is as MattMattMatt says, that anything my employer decides would be pretty much watertight, and there probably wouldn’t be a case to ‘win’ or for a union to be involved with.

My concern about redeployment is losing my existing working pattern which isn’t standard and may not be compatible with the business needs of different service area.  Changing would have personal ramifications and a financial impact to me.

Until the plans are announced I am not overly concerned, but it seems there is probably little benefit to joining a union at this stage in the game. My colleagues have, but they are against the idea of any cuts and would be arguing to keep the status quo.

ChasingtheWelshdream

Voyager2002 said:

Note that a union will not help with a problem that you knew about at the time you joined.

Technically we don’t know anything and certainly nothing from any manager, even when asked directly. Only media headlines of sweeping budget cuts and staffing reviews. 

Savvy_Sue

ChasingtheWelshdream said:

Thank you.

Of course, I have no grounds at all yet to argue against any redeployment until, or if, it happens. 

My gut feeling is as MattMattMatt says, that anything my employer decides would be pretty much watertight, and there probably wouldn’t be a case to ‘win’ or for a union to be involved with.

My concern about redeployment is losing my existing working pattern which isn’t standard and may not be compatible with the business needs of different service area.  Changing would have personal ramifications and a financial impact to me.

Until the plans are announced I am not overly concerned, but it seems there is probably little benefit to joining a union at this stage in the game. My colleagues have, but they are against the idea of any cuts and would be arguing to keep the status quo.

Well, the example I gave above certainly wasn't watertight! No, I wasn't making it up! 

Is your existing working pattern agreed in writing on a permanent basis, or is it 'custom and practice'? I'd say the former would be easier to argue as a necessity in any redeployment. 

Bear in mind that once any plans are announced, it may be too late to join the union to get any support. 

ChasingtheWelshdream

Savvy_Sue said

Is your existing working pattern agreed in writing on a permanent basis, or is it 'custom and practice'? 

The overall hours are specified in my contract, but working patterns only referenced to as ‘as agreed with the service area’.

Jude57

ChasingtheWelshdream said:

Thank you.

Of course, I have no grounds at all yet to argue against any redeployment until, or if, it happens. 

My gut feeling is as MattMattMatt says, that anything my employer decides would be pretty much watertight, and there probably wouldn’t be a case to ‘win’ or for a union to be involved with.

My concern about redeployment is losing my existing working pattern which isn’t standard and may not be compatible with the business needs of different service area.  Changing would have personal ramifications and a financial impact to me.

Until the plans are announced I am not overly concerned, but it seems there is probably little benefit to joining a union at this stage in the game. My colleagues have, but they are against the idea of any cuts and would be arguing to keep the status quo.

I can't emphasise enough that the time to join the Union is before you're facing an issue with which you need their help. It's likely that you'll need to have been a member in good standing (subs up to date, no acting against the Union) for at least six months before they'll legally represent you although individual Branches may offer some limited support before that. This isn't unreasonable because otherwise, you'd be benefiting from the support and services other Union members have been paying for. Think of Union membership as an insurance policy. You hope you'll never need to claim but it's reassuring to know it's there if you need it. And like an insurance policy, you can't claim for an incident before you took out the policy. 

I'd agree with you that it's unlikely the Union will argue for your post to be declared redundant if there's a suitable redeployment role available. Broadly speaking, that just needs to be on a similar grade and salary. Your specific preferred working pattern and location are unlikely to be things the Union will fight hard for when their energies and resources are needed to protect multiple other jobs that are at risk. Keeping or improving members' jobs and conditions are, after all, the main purpose of Unions.

One benefit of joining the Union now is that, if nothing else, you'll hear officially about any changes before non-members. If you attend Branch meetings,that is. 

EnPointe

Voyager2002 said:

Note that a union will not help with a problem that you knew about at the time you joined.

there is no consultation  or annoucment made yet ,.  this is not a 'deathbed conversion'  if the OP  joins before the announcements are made... rumours are rumours ...