Newlyn enforcement turning up no prior warning.

debtout

Hello all sorry for long post. A workmate has had an unfortunate incident with Newlyn. She bought a house, moved, and didn't pay the council tax. 1 year later, she had a knock on the door from Newlyn demanding payment, for the council tax, as this was sent over to them to recover the funds. Having looked into this further, the council sends bills to the last known address and that's it; this is why it ended up with Newlyn. I can also see there isn't much the council can do once it's with Newlyn, even though she moved from the old address and didn't receive any letters.

 The only issue is that when Newlyn turned up at her house, they did not send any prior letters or warnings, and they added more money to the original bill due to the enforcement officer's visit. When she called to query this, they simply said they sent a letter, letters or a letter, however, she never received them. Initially, they said they sent one letter, and when pressed, they said they sent at least three, but they seem to be consistently saying only one letter was sent.
Is there anything that can be done to force Newlyn to show evidence of what and when they sent the letter of enforcement before their visit, as this seems to be the reason the debt has at least £275 extra added?
For those in the know, can they just turn up without writing beforehand? How many letters should have been sent before a visit, and is there anything that can be escalated, as she is adamant she did not receive any letter from them, as she would have paid the bill? She is not disputing the amount owed to the council, but rather Newlyn's visit without warning and the added £275 cost. Should she just pay or contest this? Many thanks. 

LightFlare

Surprisingly a lot of people who owe money would mysteriously not be home when bailiff's/collectors turned up if they had prior warning.

If she knew she was liable, what arrangements did she make to pay it when she moved house ?

Am assuming no mail redirect was in place.

May just have to chalk this up to experience 

Brie

So she had been paying tax on her old place but then moved and didn't think to find out what she needed to pay on the new place??  Or was it that she left the old place with tax still owing there?  Is it a different council?

OK - so she should ring the council and ask for copies of the letters they sent.  And then ask for a repayment plan.  It may be that if she's willing to catch things up fairly quickly the council will retrieve the debt from the debt collectors and the extra charges will be rescinded.  

Citizen's Advice might be able to help her manage the situation.  Generally they are very good at dealing with our council to help people sort this problem out.

Jude57

debtout said:

Hello all sorry for long post. A workmate has had an unfortunate incident with Newlyn. She bought a house, moved, and didn't pay the council tax. 1 year later, she had a knock on the door from Newlyn demanding payment, for the council tax, as this was sent over to them to recover the funds. Having looked into this further, the council sends bills to the last known address and that's it; this is why it ended up with Newlyn. I can also see there isn't much the council can do once it's with Newlyn, even though she moved from the old address and didn't receive any letters.

 The only issue is that when Newlyn turned up at her house, they did not send any prior letters or warnings, and they added more money to the original bill due to the enforcement officer's visit. When she called to query this, they simply said they sent a letter, letters or a letter, however, she never received them. Initially, they said they sent one letter, and when pressed, they said they sent at least three, but they seem to be consistently saying only one letter was sent.
Is there anything that can be done to force Newlyn to show evidence of what and when they sent the letter of enforcement before their visit, as this seems to be the reason the debt has at least £275 extra added?
For those in the know, can they just turn up without writing beforehand? How many letters should have been sent before a visit, and is there anything that can be escalated, as she is adamant she did not receive any letter from them, as she would have paid the bill? She is not disputing the amount owed to the council, but rather Newlyn's visit without warning and the added £275 cost. Should she just pay or contest this? Many thanks. 

This will be a long post but will hopefully explain the process so that you and your friend understand it a bit better.

I used to work in Council Tax recovery and I can tell you that, at a minimum, the Council will have sent your friend at least one bill (perhaps more if any adjustments were made for discounts etc), at least one reminder which set out the next steps if payment is not made, a Summons for a Liability Order hearing in the Magistrates Court and, in most cases, what we called a '7 day letter' confirming that the Liability Order had been granted and setting out the next steps that would be taken if there was no response. Those steps are still the same and include attachment of earnings or attachment of certain benefits, passing the debt to recovery agents (my Council used certificated bailiffs but not Newlyn) insolvency (having the debtor declared Bankrupt), placing a Charge on the debtor's property (if they own the house) or imprisonment for failure to pay. Council Tax is one of the few debts for which imprisonment is still a possible option but imprisonment does not void the debt, it still remains due.

I appreciate that you will have taken at face value your friend's claim to have received no previous correspondence about the Council Tax but, frankly, that's unlikely to be true. My Council, a small local authority with just 68,000 properties, used to issue 2,000 Summonses every week and many more reminders every week of the year. At each stage of recovery we'd have debtors ringing us stating that they'd never had any previous correspondence and being adamant about that, even though they'd rung us previously when they'd received a reminder or whatever. Put bluntly, the legislation governing Council Tax places the onus on the individual to register for Council Tax, to ensure that they advise the Council of any changes without delay and that they will, legally, be committing an offence by not doing so. Councils rarely take action on that, though, because of the costs involved. I'm afraid your friend isn't being any more honest with you than she was with the Council. She knew she hadn't paid Council Tax, her reasons are irrelevant, and she hoped she'd got away with it. Now she's been traced, she's casting around for further ways to avoid payment. And yes, it's perfectly legal to issue letters and other legal notices to last known addresses; this holds true across the legal system, not just for Council Tax. It's rare in the UK for personal service of legal notices to be required, such as is often portrayed in American TV shows and films. What DOES happen is that the Council Officer applying for the Liability Order has to state, under oath in the Court's witness box, that they confirm that the required bills, reminders and Summonses have been issued in accordance with legislation and, in the case of the Summonses, swear to the date they were posted, usually by First Class post. Again, this is accepted practice across many legal proceedings and proof of postage is accepted by the Courts as proof of service. There's no requirement to send such documents by recorded delivery because, not to put too fine a point on it, people dodging debts, fines etc don't generally sign for any post anyway. I can assure you that no Council Officer is going to lie under oath about this.

Newlyn are required by the legislation to issue at least one letter before attending the debtor's property and are entitled to charge a fee for this letter (£75). They are entitled to charge fees for further work by them to recover the debt and these fees are set out in regulations. The first visit is always the highest fee because they may well have had to expend resources to trace the debtor, as it seems to be the case with your friend. Then there's the salaries of the officers who attend, travel costs, insurance etc. There's further information on fees here:

https://www.citizensadvice.org.uk/debt-and-money/action-your-creditor-can-take/bailiffs/how-bailiffs-should-treat-you/check-bailiffs-fees/

Your friend's best bet now is to engage with Newlyn to try to arrange to pay the debt. Most debt advisors will encourage debtors not to allow recovery agents to enter the house and it's probably true for your friend, too. However, Newlyn are likely to pressure her by saying that they won't make an arrangement for her to pay over time without her agreeing to let them come in and having her sign a Controlled Goods Agreement. This essentially gives them ownership of identified items of value which, if she doesn't pay as agreed, Newlyn can remove and sell towards the debt. Be aware that they are unlikely to allow very much time over which to pay but it's unwise to make unsustainable offers just to get them off her back because they won't, and don't have to, be very flexible. Ultimately if she doesn't pay, the debt will be sent back to the Council who will then look at other means of recovery, as set out above.

If, as is likely, your friend has other debts, she should urgently seek advice from one of the free debt advice providers whose information you can find on the Debt Free Wannabe board and she should tell Newlyn she's doing so. Council Tax is a priority debt, though, for the reasons set out above and your friend really should treat it as very urgent.

debtout

Many thanks all for your helpful contribution. Yes the issue is clearly not paying the council tax bill, and there is no question of liability there. The only issue is that Newlyn turned up apparently without any prior letters, as she isn't one of those who will just sit on a debt and not do anything about it. No letter was sent, and based on replies above, this should have been done prior to the visit. How can she escalate this, as Newlyn are saying they sent a letter or letters before visiting and yet this isn't the case. 

Jude57

debtout said:

Many thanks all for your helpful contribution. Yes the issue is clearly not paying the council tax bill, and there is no question of liability there. The only issue is that Newlyn turned up apparently without any prior letters, as she isn't one of those who will just sit on a debt and not do anything about it. No letter was sent, and based on replies above, this should have been done prior to the visit. How can she escalate this, as Newlyn are saying they sent a letter or letters before visiting and yet this isn't the case. 

I'd recommend that first she pays Newlyn the full outstanding Council Tax including Court costs because there's no question she owes that. At the same time she should, in writing, request a copy of all correspondence Newlyn have sent or delivered to her. She should copy in the Council Tax Recovery manager and her local elected Councillor whose name and contact information will be on the Council's website. It doesn't matter whether she voted for them, it's what they're elected to do, intercede with the Council on residents behalf. Your friend must remember, though, that ALL Newlyn have to do is prove to the Council and the Councillor that they posted the first letter to the last known address to fulfil the requirement in regulations. They don't have to prove she received it because that would place a greater burden of proof on them than a Court would require. She should also bear in mind that, if she's asking for time to pay in full, the first payments she makes will go towards costs, whether she likes it or not. This is standard practice for any debt where costs have accrued. If the costs are ultimately cancelled, the amount credited towards costs would be credited towards the debt.

And I'm afraid that, with respect, someone who deliberately fails to pay Council Tax then moves without giving a forwarding address so as to avoid paying is precisely the kind of person who will deny having received letters. It costs Councils (that is, taxpayers) a great deal of money to pursue non-payers and an element of the Council Tax we pay covers this. Newlyn will be paid, whether by your friend or by the other Council Tax payers of the area. 

uptdale

Things can and do go wrong when important letters are sent by ordinary mail.  I had a recent experience when there was a void period at a rental property for which I as landlord was liable for the CT.  I notified the council (a London Borough Council which I will not name) by email in May, giving the start and expected end dates of the void period, and asking them to send the demand to my local property managers, which is usual.  My property managers heard nothing from the council until December, when they received in the mail a Liability Order Notification - obviously addressed to me c/o the property managers - which they paid.  I was pretty shocked, so I obviously asked questions.  The property managers were adamant that they had received no previous demand or a summons, and they had had to ring the council to find out what period the liability related to.  I believe the property managers - they would not be my property managers if I did not trust them, and it would be completely against their commercial interests to ignore a CT demand.

So I spoke to the council.  They confirmed that they had received my email in May, and said that they had sent 5 letters to my property managers by mail - a demand in June, an amended demand in August (a minor change in the date a new tenancy started), a reminder in September, a summons in November and the Liability Order Notification after the court hearing.  I told him that my property managers said that they had not received any of the first 4 documents, only the last.  Without my asking or even prompting, the council officer immediately said that he would refund the court costs.

I was left wondering what on earth could have gone on for 4 correctly addressed important documents to be lost in the post.  1 or 2 you might understand, but 4??  I concluded from the council officer's response that it must happen quite a lot.

sheramber

debtout said:

Many thanks all for your helpful contribution. Yes the issue is clearly not paying the council tax bill, and there is no question of liability there. The only issue is that Newlyn turned up apparently without any prior letters, as she isn't one of those who will just sit on a debt and not do anything about it. No letter was sent, and based on replies above, this should have been done prior to the visit. How can she escalate this, as Newlyn are saying they sent a letter or letters before visiting and yet this isn't the case. 

Did they send them to the old address as that was the last known address?  If it was not returned undelivered they would not know she did not receive it. 

They may have only traced her current address p
 having visited the old  address and been told she no longer lived there. 

When I moved  the form advising the council tax dept asked for my new address.