Civil service- Premium Alpha pension advice for my Dad!

hdot94

hugheskevi said:

hdot94 said:

hugheskevi said:

Do you know they are allowed to deny partial retirement?

Yes, although they are not denying partial retirement directly, just effectively denying it.

You are seeking to vary your contractual arrangements, your employer is not amenable to this, which is their right.

What are my options here as it seems that for a 20% reduction in wage, I'm loosing out on my alpha pension as it's not accruing any further by me not taking it and I'm already 66!

Alpha isn't a concern. You can accrue it until any age, and if you accrue it, or decide to receive it after Normal Pension age, it will benefit from an actuarial enhancement.

It is the legacy schemes of classic, classic plus and premium where care has to be taken.

Can anyone advise what my options here are?

(1) Resign and commence pension, maybe seeking a new job
(2) Continue working full time and leave pension untouched
(3) Challenge employer about moving to part-time work

Thanks for your advice, I believe he is going to try to challenge the employer with the support of his union about moving part time. I think they are not understanding that he just requires a 20% reduction in salary to go partial retirement, which given he works nights and overtime, shouldn't be too hard to achieve 

Suzycoll said:

hdot94 said:

hugheskevi said:

Do you know they are allowed to deny partial retirement?

Yes, although they are not denying partial retirement directly, just effectively denying it.

You are seeking to vary your contractual arrangements, your employer is not amenable to this, which is their right.

What are my options here as it seems that for a 20% reduction in wage, I'm loosing out on my alpha pension as it's not accruing any further by me not taking it and I'm already 66!

Alpha isn't a concern. You can accrue it until any age, and if you accrue it, or decide to receive it after Normal Pension age, it will benefit from an actuarial enhancement.

It is the legacy schemes of classic, classic plus and premium where care has to be taken.

Just bumping this thread, thank you for the responses and advice so far but wanted to get some further advice.

My dad's request for partial retirement has been denied, citing the inability to find cover for hours and the lack of staff. I'm now pushing him to appeal this. The main concern is the fact that he is 66 and has both an alpha and a premium pension. This means he could have started taking the final salary premium pension since 60, but we only found about it now. This means he would have been able to cut his wages by 20% but significantly reduce his hours and be only 20% worse off in terms of salary. So it feels to be like by being denied partial retirment we are losing the ability to draw on the premium pension with a slight reduction in total wage. This doesn't make sense as my dad currently works long hours and nights and would benefit with fewer hours and a small reduction in wage.

Can anyone advise what my options here are?

Thanks so much in advance 

Hi
Personally I would try to appeal the decision.

If that is turned down I would just retire, claim both Classic & Alpha  & put your/his feet up 🙂. Dad is 66 so pension is not going to increase massively (assuming 67 pension age ) 

That's fair advice as well however he's concerned due to the amount of extra he makes from nights and overtime, the shortfall in income won't be enough to sustain living costs.

QrizB said:

hdot94 said:

Can anyone advise what my options here are?

As above, if he's willing to tell his employer that their choices are:

- allow him to partially retire, or

- see him fully retired,

... it should focus their minds.

This is the point I hope he will make in his appeal the employer surely need to factor that in or face the reality of having to replace him completely and for someone with 10+ years that's not an easy ask.german_keeper said:

hdot94 said:

hugheskevi said:

Do you know they are allowed to deny partial retirement?

Yes, although they are not denying partial retirement directly, just effectively denying it.

You are seeking to vary your contractual arrangements, your employer is not amenable to this, which is their right.

What are my options here as it seems that for a 20% reduction in wage, I'm loosing out on my alpha pension as it's not accruing any further by me not taking it and I'm already 66!

Alpha isn't a concern. You can accrue it until any age, and if you accrue it, or decide to receive it after Normal Pension age, it will benefit from an actuarial enhancement.

It is the legacy schemes of classic, classic plus and premium where care has to be taken.

Just bumping this thread, thank you for the responses and advice so far but wanted to get some further advice.

My dad's request for partial retirement has been denied, citing the inability to find cover for hours and the lack of staff. I'm now pushing him to appeal this. The main concern is the fact that he is 66 and has both an alpha and a premium pension. This means he could have started taking the final salary premium pension since 60, but we only found about it now. This means he would have been able to cut his wages by 20% but significantly reduce his hours and be only 20% worse off in terms of salary. So it feels to be like by being denied partial retirment we are losing the ability to draw on the premium pension with a slight reduction in total wage. This doesn't make sense as my dad currently works long hours and nights and would benefit with fewer hours and a small reduction in wage.

Can anyone advise what my options here are?

Thanks so much in advance 

I'm not sure what you mean by "appeal" the decision. There is no formal appeal process where an independent tribunal will consider the situation.

Partial retirement is essentially 2 different processes.

Firstly your dad can do whatever he wants with regard to taking his pension as long as it is within the scheme rules.

The second part is just a request to go part time and partial retirement is no different to any other request to go part time. A decision will be made somewhere up the line management chain as to whether this can be accommodated. Not sure whether there is any protocol to say exactly how far up the chain that decision would be made. 

In my Dept, HMRC, I was never aware of a process to challenge that decision. Maybe there is something in place in your dad's Dept. Might also be worth seeking union advice. Good Luck.

He's been told he can appeal the decision so may be different with each department we will try his luck with the union support otherwise explore options- really a shame.

Isthisforreal99

hdot94 said:

hugheskevi said:

hdot94 said:

hugheskevi said:

Do you know they are allowed to deny partial retirement?

Yes, although they are not denying partial retirement directly, just effectively denying it.

You are seeking to vary your contractual arrangements, your employer is not amenable to this, which is their right.

What are my options here as it seems that for a 20% reduction in wage, I'm loosing out on my alpha pension as it's not accruing any further by me not taking it and I'm already 66!

Alpha isn't a concern. You can accrue it until any age, and if you accrue it, or decide to receive it after Normal Pension age, it will benefit from an actuarial enhancement.

It is the legacy schemes of classic, classic plus and premium where care has to be taken.

Can anyone advise what my options here are?

(1) Resign and commence pension, maybe seeking a new job
(2) Continue working full time and leave pension untouched
(3) Challenge employer about moving to part-time work

Thanks for your advice, I believe he is going to try to challenge the employer with the support of his union about moving part time. I think they are not understanding that he just requires a 20% reduction in salary to go partial retirement, which given he works nights and overtime, shouldn't be too hard to achieve 

Not quite - he will be required to reduce pensionable earnings by 20% and most of the time overtime is not pensionable.

hdot94

Isthisforreal99 said:

hdot94 said:

hugheskevi said:

hdot94 said:

hugheskevi said:

Do you know they are allowed to deny partial retirement?

Yes, although they are not denying partial retirement directly, just effectively denying it.

You are seeking to vary your contractual arrangements, your employer is not amenable to this, which is their right.

What are my options here as it seems that for a 20% reduction in wage, I'm loosing out on my alpha pension as it's not accruing any further by me not taking it and I'm already 66!

Alpha isn't a concern. You can accrue it until any age, and if you accrue it, or decide to receive it after Normal Pension age, it will benefit from an actuarial enhancement.

It is the legacy schemes of classic, classic plus and premium where care has to be taken.

Can anyone advise what my options here are?

(1) Resign and commence pension, maybe seeking a new job
(2) Continue working full time and leave pension untouched
(3) Challenge employer about moving to part-time work

Thanks for your advice, I believe he is going to try to challenge the employer with the support of his union about moving part time. I think they are not understanding that he just requires a 20% reduction in salary to go partial retirement, which given he works nights and overtime, shouldn't be too hard to achieve 

Not quite - he will be required to reduce pensionable earnings by 20% and most of the time overtime is not pensionable.

Does that mean he would only need to reduce his base earnings by 20% (excluding overtime) but would then be free to do overtime as and when he pleases? This would be a good sell if its allowed to his employer?

hdot94

hdot94 said:

Isthisforreal99 said:

hdot94 said:

hugheskevi said:

hdot94 said:

hugheskevi said:

Do you know they are allowed to deny partial retirement?

Yes, although they are not denying partial retirement directly, just effectively denying it.

You are seeking to vary your contractual arrangements, your employer is not amenable to this, which is their right.

What are my options here as it seems that for a 20% reduction in wage, I'm loosing out on my alpha pension as it's not accruing any further by me not taking it and I'm already 66!

Alpha isn't a concern. You can accrue it until any age, and if you accrue it, or decide to receive it after Normal Pension age, it will benefit from an actuarial enhancement.

It is the legacy schemes of classic, classic plus and premium where care has to be taken.

Can anyone advise what my options here are?

(1) Resign and commence pension, maybe seeking a new job
(2) Continue working full time and leave pension untouched
(3) Challenge employer about moving to part-time work

Thanks for your advice, I believe he is going to try to challenge the employer with the support of his union about moving part time. I think they are not understanding that he just requires a 20% reduction in salary to go partial retirement, which given he works nights and overtime, shouldn't be too hard to achieve 

Not quite - he will be required to reduce pensionable earnings by 20% and most of the time overtime is not pensionable.

Does that mean he would only need to reduce his base earnings by 20% (excluding overtime) but would then be free to do overtime as and when he pleases? This would be a good sell if its allowed to his employer?

Does anyone know the answer to this?

Andy_L

IIRC working extra hours, for part time workers, only counts as overtime (and thus not pensionable) when they have done more than full-time hours.

Seing as how abatement has been around for so long it seems unlikely that "dropping to a 4 day week but always doing 1 days overtime per week" wouldn't be a well known dodge and/or have been stopped

hugheskevi

Interesting FAQ on NCA website: (my bolding and italics)

I am in receipt of a public service pension. If I am employed by the NCA how will this affect my salary/pension?
This will depend on your pension scheme rules and you should always seek advice from your scheme provider. However, in general terms the amount you receive by way of salary and pension combined should not exceed what was previously earned by your total salary (including any allowances) at the time of retirement. Where the salary on re-employment plus pension does exceed the previous level of earnings, abatement will usually apply. This means that either your pension or salary will be reduced.
After joining the amount of abatement may change if, for example:

• You are promoted permanently or temporarily
• Your conditioned hours change
• You benefit from a retrospective pay rise that changes either: the salary that was used to work out your pension before you retired, or the salary that was used in your new post when we initially worked out your abatement.
• You become entitled to a new pensionable allowance.

Abatement is not increased as a result of normal annual pay rises or if you work overtime.
For further details on civil service pensions go to www.civilservicepensionscheme.org.uk and search for abatement.

hdot94

Interesting, my dad works full time and based on the latest statements it looks like overtime is classed as pensionable earnings so I imagine its part of the calcualtion. However, this seems to contradict the civil service site which says:

 Aa rule, only permanent items of pay are pensionable. This will include any allowances your employer tells you are pensionable, but will not include some payments, like overtime.

Very confusing as the annual statement incldues overtime as pensionable earnings but the above suggests otherwise