Back Pay & Redundancy.

Threesheds

A question on behalf of my Brother.
He has worked for a company for a number of years and has recently joined with colleagues in trying to attain equal and back pay from the employer. Employees with the same skillset doing the same job are paid more at another site owned by the same company.
Their union are only acting as intermediaries and not giving official backing.
Now the company is offering a voluntary redundancy package of £30,000 for 25 years Service.
The union have said that if anyone leaves then they will not be included with any backpay should they win the case.
Is this legal ?
Hope I've explained this ok.

Marcon

Threesheds said:

A question on behalf of my Brother.
He has worked for a company for a number of years and has recently joined with colleagues in trying to attain equal and back pay from the employer. Employees with the same skillset doing the same job are paid more at another site owned by the same company.
Their union are only acting as intermediaries and not giving official backing.
Now the company is offering a voluntary redundancy package of £30,000 for 25 years Service.
The union have said that if anyone leaves then they will not be included with any backpay should they win the case.
Is this legal ?
Hope I've explained this ok.

It's a bit worrying that you are questioning if the union knows its legal basics! One would hope they do...

People working at different sites have long had different rates of pay, to reflect all sorts of things: cost of living (London Weighting has long been around), the local labour market, what other employers pay.. On what grounds does anyone think a claim for equal pay will succeed if it's simply founded on people based at a different site? Is there demonstrable unlawful discrimination of some sort? 

If the discrimination is unlawful, then the back pay issue would be a different matter. If not (and it doesn't sound as if it is), it's no surprise that the union isn't giving official backing - they already know full well there's little chance of such a claim succeeding. 

Undervalued

Marcon said:

Threesheds said:

A question on behalf of my Brother.
He has worked for a company for a number of years and has recently joined with colleagues in trying to attain equal and back pay from the employer. Employees with the same skillset doing the same job are paid more at another site owned by the same company.
Their union are only acting as intermediaries and not giving official backing.
Now the company is offering a voluntary redundancy package of £30,000 for 25 years Service.
The union have said that if anyone leaves then they will not be included with any backpay should they win the case.
Is this legal ?
Hope I've explained this ok.

It's a bit worrying that you are questioning if the union knows its legal basics! One would hope they do...

People working at different sites have long had different rates of pay, to reflect all sorts of things: cost of living (London Weighting has long been around), the local labour market, what other employers pay.. On what grounds does anyone think a claim for equal pay will succeed if it's simply founded on people based at a different site? Is there demonstrable unlawful discrimination of some sort? 

If the discrimination is unlawful, then the back pay issue would be a different matter. If not (and it doesn't sound as if it is), it's no surprise that the union isn't giving official backing - they already know full well there's little chance of such a claim succeeding. 

Exactly. I assume there must be another angle to this.

Also, a union will tend (usually quite lawfully) to put the interests of the membership as a whole ahead of pursuing the legal rights of an individual member. In that sense, union membership is not the same thing as legal insurance. 

EnPointe

Marcon said:

Threesheds said:

A question on behalf of my Brother.
He has worked for a company for a number of years and has recently joined with colleagues in trying to attain equal and back pay from the employer. Employees with the same skillset doing the same job are paid more at another site owned by the same company.
Their union are only acting as intermediaries and not giving official backing.
Now the company is offering a voluntary redundancy package of £30,000 for 25 years Service.
The union have said that if anyone leaves then they will not be included with any backpay should they win the case.
Is this legal ?
Hope I've explained this ok.

It's a bit worrying that you are questioning if the union knows its legal basics! One would hope they do...

People working at different sites have long had different rates of pay, to reflect all sorts of things: cost of living (London Weighting has long been around), the local labour market, what other employers pay.. On what grounds does anyone think a claim for equal pay will succeed if it's simply founded on people based at a different site? Is there demonstrable unlawful discrimination of some sort? 

If the discrimination is unlawful, then the back pay issue would be a different matter. If not (and it doesn't sound as if it is), it's no surprise that the union isn't giving official backing - they already know full well there's little chance of such a claim succeeding. 

It's a bit worrying you  don't understand the very  basics of  equal pay  and seem to be glossing  over major factors that have to be demonstrably accounted for when offerign different pay  for the same  role in different locations .

there is a very good basis  for a claim if  the people work to the same  role descriptio nand person sdpec  and  the  pay differential is not  explained  by a demonstrable  and provable  Market  forces adjucts ( e.g. lkocation weighting) or   something like  legacy TUPE  differences ( however it's only  really the railways  where legacy differences carry forward in new recruits) 

Threesheds

Thanks for all your replies.
Unfortunately our Union have a history of not wanting to rock the boat and tend to side with the Employer in many matters, "in our best interest".
We cannot go through a Private Solicitor until the company procedure has been followed and exhausted or resolved.
Due to this a group of us had to make a personal complaint but the company will not deal with us directly, hence the union acting as 'go between' but only to facilitate communication.
Neither factory is in or near London. We work on different products but on occasion workers will travel to each others site and do the same job there. And recently some 'equipment' was brought to our site from the other for us to work on.
So each plant produces different items but the work we do on each is the same, if that makes sense ?
This discrepancy may be more widespread but we are pursuing the issue with regard to our particular skill.
Now what I am enquiring about at present is the right to any back pay should we win our case as I am considering leaving that employment.
The Union say no, but as indicated they do not have a reliable history and really do not have any legal training.

Threesheds

I have a notification to say 'Rosie commented on Equal Pay & Redundancy'. But when I click on it, it says I do not have permission.
Any ideas ?

EnPointe

Threesheds said:

Thanks for all your replies.
Unfortunately our Union have a history of not wanting to rock the boat and tend to side with the Employer in many matters, "in our best interest".
We cannot go through a Private Solicitor until the company procedure has been followed and exhausted or resolved.
Due to this a group of us had to make a personal complaint but the company will not deal with us directly, hence the union acting as 'go between' but only to facilitate communication.
Neither factory is in or near London. We work on different products but on occasion workers will travel to each others site and do the same job there. And recently some 'equipment' was brought to our site from the other for us to work on.
So each plant produces different items but the work we do on each is the same, if that makes sense ?
This discrepancy may be more widespread but we are pursuing the issue with regard to our particular skill.
Now what I am enquiring about at present is the right to any back pay should we win our case as I am considering leaving that employment.
The Union say no, but as indicated they do not have a reliable history and really do not have any legal training.

1. you are not  doing the same work ( for the same customer / makingthe same products ) , although there is a degree of commonality in equipment and some staff are cross trained  so you can produce  products  normally made at the other site 

Marcon

EnPointe said:

Marcon said:

Threesheds said:

A question on behalf of my Brother.
He has worked for a company for a number of years and has recently joined with colleagues in trying to attain equal and back pay from the employer. Employees with the same skillset doing the same job are paid more at another site owned by the same company.
Their union are only acting as intermediaries and not giving official backing.
Now the company is offering a voluntary redundancy package of £30,000 for 25 years Service.
The union have said that if anyone leaves then they will not be included with any backpay should they win the case.
Is this legal ?
Hope I've explained this ok.

It's a bit worrying that you are questioning if the union knows its legal basics! One would hope they do...

People working at different sites have long had different rates of pay, to reflect all sorts of things: cost of living (London Weighting has long been around), the local labour market, what other employers pay.. On what grounds does anyone think a claim for equal pay will succeed if it's simply founded on people based at a different site? Is there demonstrable unlawful discrimination of some sort? 

If the discrimination is unlawful, then the back pay issue would be a different matter. If not (and it doesn't sound as if it is), it's no surprise that the union isn't giving official backing - they already know full well there's little chance of such a claim succeeding. 

It's a bit worrying you  don't understand the very  basics of  equal pay  and seem to be glossing  over major factors that have to be demonstrably accounted for when offerign different pay  for the same  role in different locations .

there is a very good basis  for a claim if  the people work to the same  role descriptio nand person sdpec  and  the  pay differential is not  explained  by a demonstrable  and provable  Market  forces adjucts ( e.g. lkocation weighting) or   something like  legacy TUPE  differences ( however it's only  really the railways  where legacy differences carry forward in new recruits) 

'Demonstrably accounted for' to whom, exactly? There's a big difference between a legislative requirement and something which might be viewed as good commercial sense.

Employers can pay whatever they wish, provided they don't do so on the basis of unlawful discrimination - and as OP has now said, the products being made are in any case different.

Threesheds

The product is different but the work is the same. 
But I am more concerned about the threat that if I or any individual leave the company then they cannot continue with the claim ?

Threesheds

"there is a very good basis  for a claim if  the people work to the same  role descriptio nand person sdpec  and  the  pay differential is not  explained  by a demonstrable  and provable  Market  forces adjucts ( e.g. lkocation weighting) or   something like  legacy TUPE  differences ( however it's only  really the railways  where legacy differences carry forward in new recruits) "

Sorry I can't see who wrote this but very helpful, Thanks.