1995 NHS Pension complaint

monsoon67

In 2021 after 19yrs in a Band 4 role, paying £125 a month into pension I downgraded through no fault of my own, to a part-time Band 2 role. I can take the 95 pension in 2.5yrs.

I only discovered a few months ago that ALL my pension will now be based on my current earnings.
It's too late to apply for pension to be protected as that can only be done within 3 months of leaving prior role.

Only way to improve pension is to get a job with higher banding - but the hospital has a recruitment freeze & anyone who leaves isn't being replaced. I'm also not in a position to work full-time again as I'm a carer for my adult child who has multiple disabilities.

Basically my role was swapped with a colleague who said they'd go off with stress if they had to do it any longer. I did that for 3 years - as well as additional admin work due to people being allowed to WFH during COVID & staff leaving. I'd started vaping even though I don't smoke, and taking Valium due to having panic attacks re. work - but I didn't go off sick.

In over 22yrs working in the NHS I've only had 6 days off sick. I informed my manager that I was extremely stressed, but no help was offered. Other staff in same role have been off sick for months with stress and referred to Occupational Health.

One day I couldn't stand it any more & asked my line manager if there were any typing jobs, to which they replied yes. So I simply applied & downgraded without realising the huge impact on my pension.

I've now lost well over £10K in pension. I can complain to NHS Pensions and only then I can involve the Pensions Ombudsman.

Problem is I've no idea how to word my initial complaint and need help/advice. Thanks.

Marcon

monsoon67 said:

After 19yrs in a Band 4 role, paying £125 a month into pension I downgraded through no fault of my own, to a part-time Band 2 role.



One day I couldn't stand it any more & asked my line manager if there were any typing jobs, to which they replied yes. So I simply applied & downgraded without realising the huge impact on my pension.


Problem is I've no idea how to word my initial complaint and need help/advice. Thanks.

I think your much bigger problem is that you asked to downgrade and for whatever reason (extreme stress, from the sound of it) didn't establish what impact this would have on your pension.

What exactly is your complaint? That's the first thing on which you need to be clear. Given the request to downgrade came from you, from what you've said pretty informally, it's not clear that you would have been eligible to protect your pay under the 'no fault of your own' provision. I'm not sure you can claim that your employer 'should have told you' about the pension impact, especially as things happened the way you describe.

Any chance you might be covered by Voluntary Protection of Pay, assuming your employer is willing to confirm they agreed to a step down (rather than what seems to have happened) and the step down was no more than 15 months ago?

QrizB

Marcon said:

...  and the step down was no more than 15 months ago?

OP says they downgraded in 2021, so that ship has probably sailed.

LightFlare

Going part-time  would always have had an affect on your pension anyway - especially under the 1995 section - depending on what wte you changed to it could be making a bigger difference than the change from B4 to B2

hyubh

LightFlare said:

Going part-time  would always have had an affect on your pension anyway - especially under the 1995 section - depending on what wte you changed to it could be making a bigger difference than the change from B4 to B2

How so...? Going part time affects accrual going forward, which in this case, was only for a year given final salary accrual ended for everyone in 2022. Dropping your rate of pay, in contrast, devalues your accrual to date too.

Purplelady65

LightFlare said:

Going part-time  would always have had an affect on your pension anyway - especially under the 1995 section - depending on what wte you changed to it could be making a bigger difference than the change from B4 to B2

Calculation of pension in the 1995 scheme is based on whole time equivalent salary so going part-time doesn’t affect that part of the calculation but does impact on the number of years of service. For example, if you worked 4 days a week for 15 years the number of years service in the pension would be 12 years as opposed to 15 years for a full time worker. 

Purplelady65

I’m really sorry to hear about your situation monsoon67. I work in the NHS and unfortunately there is very little information given to staff about the NHS pension scheme so in my experience most staff don’t understand it. In fact there are a significant number of employees not even in the NHS Pension scheme. As managers wouldn’t know which of their staff were in the NHS pension scheme and the majority wouldn’t know the implications on someone’s pension if they changed jobs anyway the onus is on the individual to find out about any impact on their pension scheme if they make any job changes. 

I’m not really sure what the basis of your complaint would be and to whom. I would urge you to start applying for Band 4 jobs as soon as possible even maybe look at jobs in other trusts besides your current one. I appreciate there is a recruitment freeze in many trusts but there will be posts that just can’t be done without and will have to be recruited to. It would probably be worth you looking at fixed term contracts if they are for 12 months or longer. There are quite a number of project type posts and fixed term contracts about due to funding constraints. Re working full-time you don’t need to. When the calculations are done for the best year of the last 3 years, NHS Pensions take the whole time equivalent figure of someone’s salary. Good luck with finding a new role. I would also suggest you look at Band 5 roles as well as you have a lot of previous experience to offer as a previous Band 4 for many years. Also maybe reach out to your learning and development team to see if they offer any support in applying for jobs, preparing for an interview e.t.c. Some also offer a 1-1 support session. 

LightFlare

Purplelady65 said:

LightFlare said:

Going part-time  would always have had an affect on your pension anyway - especially under the 1995 section - depending on what wte you changed to it could be making a bigger difference than the change from B4 to B2

Calculation of pension in the 1995 scheme is based on whole time equivalent salary so going part-time doesn’t affect that part of the calculation but does impact on the number of years of service. For example, if you worked 4 days a week for 15 years the number of years service in the pension would be 12 years as opposed to 15 years for a full time worker. 

Exactly - so an approx 20% real terms difference in end pension. (Ignoring all other factors)

It may be possible to do some juggling around the McCloud judgement remedy as well for 2015-2022 if the OP is eligible as those 7 years may be very important depending doing on which scheme is applied to them especially as the band and hours changed during it

It “may” be worth considering as much as possible in the 2015 section and working a couple of years longer.

OP states they can claim their pension in 2.5 years - but the 1995 can be claimed from 55 (might be 50 some professions) but they didn’t actually say if they were and what age they would be claiming at which may make some difference 

Suggest the OP requests a full/accurate pension forecast to see what the actual figures come out.


With so many variables, the complexity and potential life impact I would strongly recommend some professional advice and guidance

LightFlare

Purplelady65 said:

I’m really sorry to hear about your situation monsoon67. I work in the NHS and unfortunately there is very little information given to staff about the NHS pension scheme so in my experience most staff don’t understand it. In fact there are a significant number of employees not even in the NHS Pension scheme. As managers wouldn’t know which of their staff were in the NHS pension scheme and the majority wouldn’t know the implications on someone’s pension if they changed jobs anyway the onus is on the individual to find out about any impact on their pension scheme if they make any job changes. 

I’m not really sure what the basis of your complaint would be and to whom. I would urge you to start applying for Band 4 jobs as soon as possible even maybe look at jobs in other trusts besides your current one. I appreciate there is a recruitment freeze in many trusts but there will be posts that just can’t be done without and will have to be recruited to. It would probably be worth you looking at fixed term contracts if they are for 12 months or longer. There are quite a number of project type posts and fixed term contracts about due to funding constraints. Re working full-time you don’t need to. When the calculations are done for the best year of the last 3 years, NHS Pensions take the whole time equivalent figure of someone’s salary. Good luck with finding a new role. I would also suggest you look at Band 5 roles as well as you have a lot of previous experience to offer as a previous Band 4 for many years. Also maybe reach out to your learning and development team to see if they offer any support in applying for jobs, preparing for an interview e.t.c. Some also offer a 1-1 support session. 

I would disagree with this - Info is aplenty- however accurately interpreting and applying it can be a challenge.
  I think the issue is that people “choose” to not find the info as it’s years away or it’s too late to actually improve any shortfalls

crv1963

monsoon67 Whilst I have a degree of empathy for your situation I suspect that you have no real chance of any complaint being upheld. This because the change in role was at your own request, regardless of the reasons behind the request. In terms of NHS Pension provision there is information available and Trusts have Pension Officers who deal with the pension and a call or email to them would have got you the information about the move reducing the pension in the long term.

I agree you could change roles again to a higher grade or increase hours, all of which will also help your 2015 pension which you will get at 67 years. If you retire and return or partial retirement check with your Trust Pension Officer the best way to do it, you can claim at 60 and carry on with same contract terms and conditions.

hyubh

LightFlare said:

Purplelady65 said:

LightFlare said:

Going part-time  would always have had an affect on your pension anyway - especially under the 1995 section - depending on what wte you changed to it could be making a bigger difference than the change from B4 to B2

Calculation of pension in the 1995 scheme is based on whole time equivalent salary so going part-time doesn’t affect that part of the calculation but does impact on the number of years of service. For example, if you worked 4 days a week for 15 years the number of years service in the pension would be 12 years as opposed to 15 years for a full time worker. 

Exactly - so an approx 20% real terms difference in end pension. (Ignoring all other factors)

On the information given, the OP went part time in 2021, not 2007. So the part time period under final salary accrual was one year, not fifteen. What caused the hit to their pension wasn't going part time, it was dropping down a couple of grades.

With so many variables, the complexity and potential life impact I would strongly recommend some professional advice and guidance

Sounds expensive, especially when the OP doesn't appear to have engaged the administrator for guidance yet...? The latter should probably be the first step, once acknowledgement that NHS Pensions weren't responsible for the band 4 role's working conditions sets in.