New job - contract question

Benzine

I've been offered a job with a salary that increases after 6 months. My contract only states the starting salary and not the increase. They've told me it will increase and it's just a standard contract.

Should I be concerned? 

TadleyBaggie

I've never seen or heard of a job contract that specified future increases, only the starting salary.

Benzine

I should probably have made clear that the starting wage is a training wage and the wage after 6 months is the standard wage for the job.

Would that make a difference? 

EnPointe

TadleyBaggie said:

I've never seen or heard of a job contract that specified future increases, only the starting salary.

other than  roles where there is a training rate and a  competent  rate   which is accessed by completing the training and  getting your portfolio and  end point assessment completed ?

Southend_2

TadleyBaggie said:

I've never seen or heard of a job contract that specified future increases, only the starting salary.

Mine says starting salary is grade X, spinal point Y, and "salary scales are incremental (unless you are already at the top point of the grade) and the award of the first increment is subject to six months’ service in the grade.  Full details are available on the website." On the website you can find the full salary scale which is updated annually following negotiations with the trade unions.

DullGreyGuy

Benzine said:

I've been offered a job with a salary that increases after 6 months. My contract only states the starting salary and not the increase. They've told me it will increase and it's just a standard contract.

Should I be concerned? 

It depends, have they guaranteed the salary in 6 months time? Is it conditional on your passing training or such? Is it a fixed rate type of role or individually negotiated? 

If you look at our contact centres you would come in as a CS1, once you pass your training and were fully independent you would become a CS2. CS3-5 were higher levels available through experience and showing competence. You'd then become a TP1 when you became a team manager (or TP2 if you were in a technical team)

None of this would be in your contract, it's just how the grading system worked in the service and claims job families. However, what your salary would go up to/by each time you went up a grade was to be individually assessed and so whilst we would tell you that as long as you pass and become competent, which typically was 4-6 months, you'd get a raise but we wouldn't commit to exactly what the new salary would be as each grade had salary ranges not fixed salary for a particular role. 

EnPointe

DullGreyGuy said:

Benzine said:

I've been offered a job with a salary that increases after 6 months. My contract only states the starting salary and not the increase. They've told me it will increase and it's just a standard contract.

Should I be concerned? 

It depends, have they guaranteed the salary in 6 months time? Is it conditional on your passing training or such? Is it a fixed rate type of role or individually negotiated? 

If you look at our contact centres you would come in as a CS1, once you pass your training and were fully independent you would become a CS2. CS3-5 were higher levels available through experience and showing competence. You'd then become a TP1 when you became a team manager (or TP2 if you were in a technical team)

None of this would be in your contract, it's just how the grading system worked in the service and claims job families. However, what your salary would go up to/by each time you went up a grade was to be individually assessed and so whilst we would tell you that as long as you pass and become competent, which typically was 4-6 months, you'd get a raise but we wouldn't commit to exactly what the new salary would be as each grade had salary ranges not fixed salary for a particular role. 

Did you not read the  reply  from the OP whe   they  said the first incremental point is after 6 months ? ( they did  this for a while when AfC used to have  loads of  increments  so newly  qualified  Health Professionals got their first increment at 6months / completion of  probation  rather than 1 year ) 

DullGreyGuy

EnPointe said:

DullGreyGuy said:

Benzine said:

I've been offered a job with a salary that increases after 6 months. My contract only states the starting salary and not the increase. They've told me it will increase and it's just a standard contract.

Should I be concerned? 

It depends, have they guaranteed the salary in 6 months time? Is it conditional on your passing training or such? Is it a fixed rate type of role or individually negotiated? 

If you look at our contact centres you would come in as a CS1, once you pass your training and were fully independent you would become a CS2. CS3-5 were higher levels available through experience and showing competence. You'd then become a TP1 when you became a team manager (or TP2 if you were in a technical team)

None of this would be in your contract, it's just how the grading system worked in the service and claims job families. However, what your salary would go up to/by each time you went up a grade was to be individually assessed and so whilst we would tell you that as long as you pass and become competent, which typically was 4-6 months, you'd get a raise but we wouldn't commit to exactly what the new salary would be as each grade had salary ranges not fixed salary for a particular role. 

did you not rerad the  reply  from the OP when   they  said the first incremental point is fater 6 months   ( they did  this for a while  when AfC used ot have  loads of  increments  so newly  qualified  Health Professionals got their first increment at 6months / completion of  probation  rather than 1 year ) 

Struggling to read your post but yes I read their sole reply where they said it was a training salary after which they go onto the non-training salary. Hence my first questions... is passing training automatic and if the non-training salary is fixed 

Hence then the analogy of our setup where trainees are CS1, there is no automatic progression to CS2 it happens when you pass assessment which is typically 4-6 months and whilst you will get a pay rise after passing the salaries are individual and your not guaranteed what it will be, they'll say its typically 10% uplift. As such your contract with us would simply say you are a CS1 on X, when you pass training you get an update letter saying your now a CS2 and salary is now Y, there would be nothing in the contract because nothing is fixed or automatic. 

EnPointe

DullGreyGuy said:

EnPointe said:

DullGreyGuy said:

Benzine said:

I've been offered a job with a salary that increases after 6 months. My contract only states the starting salary and not the increase. They've told me it will increase and it's just a standard contract.

Should I be concerned? 

It depends, have they guaranteed the salary in 6 months time? Is it conditional on your passing training or such? Is it a fixed rate type of role or individually negotiated? 

If you look at our contact centres you would come in as a CS1, once you pass your training and were fully independent you would become a CS2. CS3-5 were higher levels available through experience and showing competence. You'd then become a TP1 when you became a team manager (or TP2 if you were in a technical team)

None of this would be in your contract, it's just how the grading system worked in the service and claims job families. However, what your salary would go up to/by each time you went up a grade was to be individually assessed and so whilst we would tell you that as long as you pass and become competent, which typically was 4-6 months, you'd get a raise but we wouldn't commit to exactly what the new salary would be as each grade had salary ranges not fixed salary for a particular role. 

did you not rerad the  reply  from the OP when   they  said the first incremental point is fater 6 months   ( they did  this for a while  when AfC used ot have  loads of  increments  so newly  qualified  Health Professionals got their first increment at 6months / completion of  probation  rather than 1 year ) 

Struggling to read your post but yes I read their sole reply where they said it was a training salary after which they go onto the non-training salary. Hence my first questions... is passing training automatic and if the non-training salary is fixed 

Hence then the analogy of our setup where trainees are CS1, there is no automatic progression to CS2 it happens when you pass assessment which is typically 4-6 months and whilst you will get a pay rise after passing the salaries are individual and your not guaranteed what it will be, they'll say its typically 10% uplift. As such your contract with us would simply say you are a CS1 on X, when you pass training you get an update letter saying your now a CS2 and salary is now Y, there would be nothing in the contract because nothing is fixed or automatic. 

It appears that you are confusing / conflating a system which  has  grades as promotions within groups of roles  with a system which has incremental progression within a grade. In the latter  progression is assumed  unless you are failing ( or  scoring  'unsatisfactory' ) your probation and then once confirmed in post your annual review. -

in the latter  changing Grade would be  a promotion  ( e.g. G1 Operatives - with the  3 or 4  incremental rates , G2 team leaders and  trainers - again possibly  with a ' job weight'  increment , G3  first line / team  manager, G4  Ops/ Departmental Manager, G5 senior manager)

the first can be problematic in some settings - as  'demoting' people from  a role  can only be achieved  by Gross misconduct procedure with  an outcome just short of  dismissal  as 'disciplinary demotion' is  really the last chance saloon and used primarily to  encourage  supervisior s and managerrs who didn;t  get  a P45 from the Gross Misconduct  to 'explore options elsewhere' 

DullGreyGuy

EnPointe said:

DullGreyGuy said:

EnPointe said:

DullGreyGuy said:

Benzine said:

I've been offered a job with a salary that increases after 6 months. My contract only states the starting salary and not the increase. They've told me it will increase and it's just a standard contract.

Should I be concerned? 

It depends, have they guaranteed the salary in 6 months time? Is it conditional on your passing training or such? Is it a fixed rate type of role or individually negotiated? 

If you look at our contact centres you would come in as a CS1, once you pass your training and were fully independent you would become a CS2. CS3-5 were higher levels available through experience and showing competence. You'd then become a TP1 when you became a team manager (or TP2 if you were in a technical team)

None of this would be in your contract, it's just how the grading system worked in the service and claims job families. However, what your salary would go up to/by each time you went up a grade was to be individually assessed and so whilst we would tell you that as long as you pass and become competent, which typically was 4-6 months, you'd get a raise but we wouldn't commit to exactly what the new salary would be as each grade had salary ranges not fixed salary for a particular role. 

did you not rerad the  reply  from the OP when   they  said the first incremental point is fater 6 months   ( they did  this for a while  when AfC used ot have  loads of  increments  so newly  qualified  Health Professionals got their first increment at 6months / completion of  probation  rather than 1 year ) 

Struggling to read your post but yes I read their sole reply where they said it was a training salary after which they go onto the non-training salary. Hence my first questions... is passing training automatic and if the non-training salary is fixed 

Hence then the analogy of our setup where trainees are CS1, there is no automatic progression to CS2 it happens when you pass assessment which is typically 4-6 months and whilst you will get a pay rise after passing the salaries are individual and your not guaranteed what it will be, they'll say its typically 10% uplift. As such your contract with us would simply say you are a CS1 on X, when you pass training you get an update letter saying your now a CS2 and salary is now Y, there would be nothing in the contract because nothing is fixed or automatic. 

It appears that you are confusing / conflating a system which  has  grades as promotions within groups of roles  with a system which has incremental progression within a grade. In the latter  progression is assumed  unless you are failing ( or  scoring  'unsatisfactory' ) your probation and then once confirmed in post your annual review. -

in the latter  changing Grade would be  a promotion  ( e.g. G1 Operatives - with the  3 or 4  incremental rates , G2 team leaders and  trainers - again possibly  with a ' job weight'  increment , G3  first line / team  manager, G4  Ops/ Departmental Manager, G5 senior manager)

the first can be problematic in some settings - as  'demoting' people from  a role  can only be achieved  by Gross misconduct procedure with  an outcome just short of  dismissal  as 'disciplinary demotion' is  really the last chance saloon and used primarily to  encourage  supervisior s and managerrs who didn;t  get  a P45 from the Gross Misconduct  to 'explore options elsewhere' 

There ultimately is insufficient information to understand the OPs situation hence suggesting a previous model where it wouldn't be problematic not having it baked into the contract. 

Ours was one of smoke and mirrors, was anyone able to log into the Group HR system they'd have seen everyone is actually simple a CS grade. Ironically most people in our division were told there was a single Senior Manager (SM) and yet that same HR system (and those close to becoming an SM) revealed there were actually 3 grades. 

We had c14,000/75% in the CS grade, the majority of the rest of the group would have been under 10%. With 16 agents to each team leader progress was otherwise slow. Many that left stated lack of progression as the reason for leaving. Hence creating pseudo grades so people felt they were moving on. 

CS1 to CS2 gave you a pay increase. Above CS2 didnt increase your basic pay but changed the commission/bonus, was a mixed bag though as it increased the potential but if you were underperforming you'd get less commission than a lower grade would have received. It was therefore fairly self fulfilling, those not doing well at a higher grade would ask to step down rather than need to be demoted. Differences weren't vast and all within the Group banding but it enabled us to achieve our aim... most CS grades doing a reasonable job and being happy enough doing their job but also keeping those that want to achieve more longer with more opportunities for them to move up/push harder