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Advice needed for signage appeal - PPM - IAS appeal

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  • M03
    M03 Posts: 69 Forumite
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    Sorry but I am not sure what you mean 

    You mentioned "transferring liability" on that thread, thats what I am referring to
  • Coupon-mad
    Coupon-mad Posts: 151,677 Forumite
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    Yes. Read how that is done, and who by.
    PRIVATE 'PCN'? DON'T PAY BUT DON'T IGNORE IT (except N.Ireland).
    CLICK at the top or bottom of any page where it says:
    Home»Motoring»Parking Tickets Fines & Parking - read the NEWBIES THREAD
  • M03
    M03 Posts: 69 Forumite
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    Right I see what you mean. It can be done, but not by me. I didn't phrase that clearly then

    I will look up how it's done
  • M03
    M03 Posts: 69 Forumite
    Eighth Anniversary 10 Posts Name Dropper Combo Breaker
    I have searched around and I understand that the keeper needs to transfer the liability to the driver. This is done by contacting the PPC directly. Once they reply, I this is forwarded to BW Legal.

    Please can you confirm if the above is correct

    There are 3 days left of their current made up deadline 

    Thanks
  • Le_Kirk
    Le_Kirk Posts: 24,545 Forumite
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    On the bottom of the PCN, there is (or should be) a tear-off slip that is returned to the PPC with the driver's name and address on it.
  • Coupon-mad
    Coupon-mad Posts: 151,677 Forumite
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    edited 28 May at 3:12PM
    M03 said:
    I have searched around and I understand that the keeper needs to transfer the liability to the driver. This is done by contacting the PPC directly. Once they reply, I this is forwarded to BW Legal.

    Please can you confirm if the above is correct

    There are 3 days left of their current made up deadline 

    Thanks
    This is a normal process; keeper transfers liability. Job done. I answered the exact same thing here. It's not new or difficult for a keeper to do:

    https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/comment/81468782/#Comment_81468782

    No it doesn't have to be done "only to the PPC", in fact that would be asking for trouble. I don't understand why keepers don't do it when they get the PCN, if they know they'd be a weaker victim if served with a claim form and where the driver is more robust to respond (not always the case of course, it is a choice to be made: FAR better than anyone paying a scam to make it go away, and thereby funding it).
    PRIVATE 'PCN'? DON'T PAY BUT DON'T IGNORE IT (except N.Ireland).
    CLICK at the top or bottom of any page where it says:
    Home»Motoring»Parking Tickets Fines & Parking - read the NEWBIES THREAD
  • M03
    M03 Posts: 69 Forumite
    Eighth Anniversary 10 Posts Name Dropper Combo Breaker
    edited 12 June at 8:11PM
    So now the transfer was made, of course I have now received a copy of the PCN but in my name as the alleged driver. According to https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/comment/69906180#Comment_69906180 as linked in the newbies thread:

    "What is often recommended is that you still refuse to name the driver, but appeal as the Keeper. That is your other half was temporarily the Keeper of the car (not the Registered Keeper - POFA is clear it is not the Registered Keeper, but the Keeper who can be held responsible)."

    I will now continue the process as the "Keeper" at the time, as it looks to make it more difficult for them due to POFA.

    POFA Schedule 4, 2 (1) states:

    "“
    keeper” means the person by whom the vehicle is kept at the time the vehicle was parked, which in the case of a registered vehicle is to be presumed, unless the contrary is proved, to be the registered keeper;"

    What would be a suitable proof that I was the keeper, though not the registered keeper?
  • Coupon-mad
    Coupon-mad Posts: 151,677 Forumite
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    I will now continue the process as the "Keeper" 
    Not in your case, if the driver was named. Nope. You are the driver. Show us this PCN, both sides, all dates showing.
    PRIVATE 'PCN'? DON'T PAY BUT DON'T IGNORE IT (except N.Ireland).
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  • M03
    M03 Posts: 69 Forumite
    Eighth Anniversary 10 Posts Name Dropper Combo Breaker
    Here it is:




  • Coupon-mad
    Coupon-mad Posts: 151,677 Forumite
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    edited 12 June at 11:52PM
    OK so that's addressed to you as named driver. Like i said.

    it's back at the beginning with the driver able to pay at £60 or appeal, or ignore (but I'd still respond once to confirm you were driving).

    Might even be worth the LOLs, effort and delay of an IAS appeal, seeing as your wife didn't use that because we advised not to. But things change; there's a new discussion here about the useless IAS and some views are that it might be tried (then ignored if you lose because a judge would consider your case properly and you have a strong case as a resident):

    https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/6611695/lets-enrich-the-ias/p1

    After all, 20% of cases see the PPC give up, so use relevant binding case law and make it hard. Admit to driving so they can't try to revert to your wife, the keeper.

    Do not muck about with a template!

    I understand this is your home car park where you're a leaseholder, so what was the car doing in that place (unloading?) for less than a minute as far as I can see from the 2 photos?

    As an appeal that makes them work hard, you could argue that there's no period of parking on the PCN and no consideration period was allowed, the signs are crap and as you are a leaseholder (attach proof that you are) the IAS Assessor is bound by the Duchess of Bedford House landmark case which was ratified by the Supreme Court (they refused an appeal application).

    The Court of Appeal confirmed the fundamental principle: whilst parking operators can introduce a scheme where it is in the interests of residents to supply a VRM for a whitelist or to display a permit, those operational conveniences cannot supersede residential rights under leases, including parking/unloading by habitual practice:

    https://caselaw.nationalarchives.gov.uk/ewca/civ/2023/1470?query=Duchess+Bedford

    Questions:
    Were you there before them? Was there habitual parking or unloading in that spot before PPM arrived to interfere with residential rights and made your lives Hell?

    And please edit your thread title because you are not at LBC stage any more! The case is back to PCN appeal stage. Please put PPM in your thread title not BW Legal.
    PRIVATE 'PCN'? DON'T PAY BUT DON'T IGNORE IT (except N.Ireland).
    CLICK at the top or bottom of any page where it says:
    Home»Motoring»Parking Tickets Fines & Parking - read the NEWBIES THREAD
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