Self assessment payment reminders

dosh37

Maybe I should simply declare my savings interest income as 'zero' and leave it to HMRC to figure it out instead of wasting hours of my time with spreadsheets?

TheSpectator

dosh37 said:

Maybe I should simply declare my savings interest income as 'zero' and leave it to HMRC to figure it out instead of wasting hours of my time with spreadsheets?

If you want a penalty for deliberately making a false return then crack on.

eskbanker

dosh37 said:

eskbanker said:

dosh37 said:

eskbanker said:

dosh37 said:

I was unable to submit my Tax return earlier because HMRC failed to respond to my request for BBSI information until December. This is despite two letters from me requesting the information earlier in the year and despite HMRC stating that savings organisations need to submit interest information before the end of June.

After I eventually received the requested BBSI information (no less than 33 savings interest records), I was able to reconcile the figures...

The fact that the BBSI rules oblige savings providers to submit their returns by the end of June ("unless otherwise stated in [their] notice") doesn't mean that they all comply with this, and even if/when they do, there's a vast amount of matching/processing/allocating/etc to be done by HMRC, so it'll generally be quite a while after that before HMRC are able to replay the relevant data back to any given taxpayer.

However, if you were keeping the requisite records yourself, why not submit your self-assessment based on those and leave the responsibility of the BBSI reconciliation to HMRC?  It's obviously your prerogative to mirror that process but it does inevitably delay your submission....

I don't see why it should be my responsibility to tell HMRC what I think I owe them.

If I buy goods from a shop, the shopkeeper tells me what I need to pay.

The shopkeeper doesn't ask me to tell them how much I think I should pay.

HMRC already knows how much pension income I receive. They also know the savings interest I receive. Why should I have to spend time and effort filling out a Self Assessment return when they already have all the necessary information? IMHO the system is total madness!

The shop analogy doesn't fit, in that as a taxpayer it remains your responsibility to pay the correct amount of tax - while it's undoubtedly true that HMRC does have access to plenty of data that allows them to work out provisional tax liabilities for many, this certainly isn't comprehensive or integrated enough, so they ask some people to self-assess in order to declare everything.  I don't know why they ask you to self-assess though, do you fit their published criteria for doing so?

However, my point was that you could have made things easier for yourself by simply declaring your taxable income and leaving it up to them to validate it, so you didn't need to spend time and effort on chasing after HMRC!

I realise that. You are simply stating the existing rules as defined by HMRC. What I am saying is that, in my opinon, the HMRC rules don't make sense.

The reason they require me to complete Self Assessment is that my savings income exceeds £10K - yet another arbitrary HMRC 'rule'.

Yes, the £10K savings interest is pretty arbitrary, but I don't see any other HMRC rules being restated?  Anyway, this probably ought to be discussed elsewhere, as it's no longer related to OP's original point about payment reminders and is now more about the principles of self-assessment itself!

dosh37

TheSpectator said:

dosh37 said:

Maybe I should simply declare my savings interest income as 'zero' and leave it to HMRC to figure it out instead of wasting hours of my time with spreadsheets?

If you want a penalty for deliberately making a false return then crack on.

I'm a 70 year old pensioner with failing eyesight and failing brain power. How do you and HMRC expect me to be able to accurately keep track of multiple accounts?

Even filling in a Self Assessment tax return at my age is difficult.

400ixl

HMRC will know some of the information, possibly not all of it. How would they know if you sold a property abroad, had capital gains etc etc.

Granted for most they have the information which they know retrospectively of you confirming it. But for many they don't, hence asking everyone.

If you are unable to keep track yourself, you need to ask someone to assist or keep things simple.

dosh37

The arcane rules - especially those relating to  tax on savings, personal savings allowances for basic and higher rate tax payers, starting rates for savings etc. are almost impossible for older mortals like myself to understand.

I have an old Which excel tax spreadsheet I use to try and keep track but the rules have changed so it no longer gives results that match HMRC figures. It is so complex that, even with an honours degree in electronic engineering, I am unable to figure out how to modify it.

400ixl said:

HMRC will know some of the information, possibly not all of it. How would they know if you sold a property abroad, had capital gains etc etc.

Granted for most they have the information which they know retrospectively of you confirming it. But for many they don't, hence asking everyone.

If you are unable to keep track yourself, you need to ask someone to assist or keep things simple.

400ixl said:

HMRC will know some of the information, possibly not all of it. How would they know if you sold a property abroad, had capital gains etc etc.

Granted for most they have the information which they know retrospectively of you confirming it. But for many they don't, hence asking everyone.

If you are unable to keep track yourself, you need to ask someone to assist or keep things simple.

Who do I ask?

That's why people like me go on these forums!

I don't have property abroad, capital gains, shares or anything else. I am just an ordinary pensioner.

dosh37

The tax systems and rules are designed by 'accountants' and 'experts' who have a lifetime of dealing with these matters. They expect ordinary people to be able to understand and comply with the complex rules. One of the things I find annoying about these forums are the 'know it alls' who seem to enjoy belittling those who are struggling to understand instead of trying to help.

400ixl

dosh37 said:

Who do I ask?

That's why people like me go on these forums!

I don't have property abroad, capital gains, shares or anything else. I am just an ordinary pensioner.

That is the problem, you know that, they don't hence they have to ask. If you are just an ordinary pensioner then there is very little to fill in on the self assessment. I agree it is a pain to have to do it though.

As for who to ask, family or friends would be the first place if it you have simple affairs, an accountant if they are complex (but doesn't sounds like you need that). Not sure if there are any charities that can help.

Personally i just have a simple spreadsheet that I spend 5 minutes each month updating and then the data is all there ready for the self assessment in one place with no need to go searching for information.

People on here don't tend to try to belittle anyone, but often will show a different point of view as to why something is the way it is. This may be taken in different ways.

If you take the topic here, people saying that the tax is not due until January so HMRC should not send them reminders. HMRC will say it is due from April and if they didn't send reminders then people may forget to pay or to put money aside to pay.

Lots of times you can't please all of the people all of the time. This is one of those situations, they have to cater for complex and simple cases with the same system and make it as simple a process without massive deviations to everyone.

TheSpectator

dosh37 said:

The arcane rules - especially those relating to  tax on savings, personal savings allowances for basic and higher rate tax payers, starting rates for savings etc. are almost impossible for older mortals like myself to understand.

I have an old Which excel tax spreadsheet I use to try and keep track but the rules have changed so it no longer gives results that match HMRC figures. It is so complex that, even with an honours degree in electronic engineering, I am unable to figure out how to modify it.

400ixl said:

HMRC will know some of the information, possibly not all of it. How would they know if you sold a property abroad, had capital gains etc etc.

Granted for most they have the information which they know retrospectively of you confirming it. But for many they don't, hence asking everyone.

If you are unable to keep track yourself, you need to ask someone to assist or keep things simple.

400ixl said:

HMRC will know some of the information, possibly not all of it. How would they know if you sold a property abroad, had capital gains etc etc.

Granted for most they have the information which they know retrospectively of you confirming it. But for many they don't, hence asking everyone.

If you are unable to keep track yourself, you need to ask someone to assist or keep things simple.

Who do I ask?

That's why people like me go on these forums!

I don't have property abroad, capital gains, shares or anything else. I am just an ordinary pensioner.

With over £10k of interest you can clearly afford the services of a tax advisor to file your returns.

For your complaints about the rules on personal savings allowance, rates etc, direct these to your MP, HMRC are only applying government legislation.

dosh37

TheSpectator said:

dosh37 said:

The arcane rules - especially those relating to  tax on savings, personal savings allowances for basic and higher rate tax payers, starting rates for savings etc. are almost impossible for older mortals like myself to understand.

I have an old Which excel tax spreadsheet I use to try and keep track but the rules have changed so it no longer gives results that match HMRC figures. It is so complex that, even with an honours degree in electronic engineering, I am unable to figure out how to modify it.

400ixl said:

HMRC will know some of the information, possibly not all of it. How would they know if you sold a property abroad, had capital gains etc etc.

Granted for most they have the information which they know retrospectively of you confirming it. But for many they don't, hence asking everyone.

If you are unable to keep track yourself, you need to ask someone to assist or keep things simple.

400ixl said:

HMRC will know some of the information, possibly not all of it. How would they know if you sold a property abroad, had capital gains etc etc.

Granted for most they have the information which they know retrospectively of you confirming it. But for many they don't, hence asking everyone.

If you are unable to keep track yourself, you need to ask someone to assist or keep things simple.

Who do I ask?

That's why people like me go on these forums!

I don't have property abroad, capital gains, shares or anything else. I am just an ordinary pensioner.

With over £10k of interest you can clearly afford the services of a tax advisor to file your returns.

For your complaints about the rules on personal savings allowance, rates etc, direct these to your MP, HMRC are only applying government legislation.

Thank you for that helpful advice. It is appreciated. It has set my mind at rest. I can sleep easy tonight. (Just for Sheldon, that is known as sarcasm and why I LOVE this forum).