IHT And Tenants In Common

Sarahspangles

dinosaur66 said:

i have seen another term used for something else but every scenario i looked at was husband and wife/divorce /first buying of a house etc etc

never son and mother

Are you joint tenants or tenants in common?

If you’re mid to late 50s and mum 70s/80s then any change you now make would be easy for the Social Care system to reverse because it would clearly be deliberate deprivation of assets. You could try to prove that you made all the financial contribution but it counts against you that you recorded something else with the Land Registry. So your worst case scenario is that mum needs long term residential care and a charge is placed on her half share of the house.

That’s less likely to happen if you can meet some of her care needs. How suitable is the house for someone who is becoming frail? I have been told that more elderly people are discharged from hospital to a care home because their own home is unsuitable, than go there because they actually require care at a level or of a type that can’t be provided at home.

Albermarle

only option i know is to sell the property and buy us another similar property and put it in my sole name bringing my mothers liabilty down to nothing and my fee for doing this would be about 25k in stamp duty and conveyencing fees

So you would be happy for your Mum to have no choice of which care home to go to, and for her just to be sent to the cheapest one the council can allocated for her ?

i was hoping last conservative govt plan to max care fees at i think it was 90k would go through but labour scrapped it as soon as they took power-
The cap was only on care costs, not on daily living, rent, energy etc even if in a care home. So the actual cap in practice would have been much higher. Also as care costs come under the local authority, they objected unless the Govt gave them extra funding. So it was delayed until at least Oct 2025 due to mainly wrangling about funding it with the Govt finances in such a poor state.
Now cancelled by Labour anyway as too expensive.

Jeremy535897

You could seek to argue that as you provided all the capital, the whole house belonged to you, but as your stated objective was to ensure that you and she both took advantage of your nil rate bands, that is unlikely to be credible.

dinosaur66

Sarahspangles said:

dinosaur66 said:

i have seen another term used for something else but every scenario i looked at was husband and wife/divorce /first buying of a house etc etc

never son and mother

Are you joint tenants or tenants in common?

If you’re mid to late 50s and mum 70s/80s then any change you now make would be easy for the Social Care system to reverse because it would clearly be deliberate deprivation of assets. You could try to prove that you made all the financial contribution but it counts against you that you recorded something else with the Land Registry. So your worst case scenario is that mum needs long term residential care and a charge is placed on her half share of the house.

That’s less likely to happen if you can meet some of her care needs. How suitable is the house for someone who is becoming frail? I have been told that more elderly people are discharged from hospital to a care home because their own home is unsuitable, than go there because they actually require care at a level or of a type that can’t be provided at home.

we are joint tennants

i am 58

mother is 82

i have read about deprivation of assets and agree with your assement

my mother main issue is osteo and rhuematoid arthritus and balance

mind wise she is perfect .

i have already adapted front and back entrance to property by putting in new 1 foot wide by 4 inchhigh  steps to and from front and back door-it is a bungalow

i have a bedroom 20 by 18 with full ensuite that was already adapted for another family member who lived with me with stage 4 copd although i gave away the hospital bed after they passed.

they were in an out of hospital usually with pnuemonia but were always discharged back to my care and property and i had carers come round 4 times a day

as i said this is a worst case scenario what if.

dinosaur66

Jeremy535897 said:

You could seek to argue that as you provided all the capital, the whole house belonged to you, but as your stated objective was to ensure that you and she both took advantage of your nil rate bands, that is unlikely to be credible.

i agree

as i said i was naive in 2003 and never crossed my mind

dinosaur66

Albermarle said:

only option i know is to sell the property and buy us another similar property and put it in my sole name bringing my mothers liabilty down to nothing and my fee for doing this would be about 25k in stamp duty and conveyencing fees

So you would be happy for your Mum to have no choice of which care home to go to, and for her just to be sent to the cheapest one the council can allocated for her ?

i was hoping last conservative govt plan to max care fees at i think it was 90k would go through but labour scrapped it as soon as they took power-
The cap was only on care costs, not on daily living, rent, energy etc even if in a care home. So the actual cap in practice would have been much higher. Also as care costs come under the local authority, they objected unless the Govt gave them extra funding. So it was delayed until at least Oct 2025 due to mainly wrangling about funding it with the Govt finances in such a poor state.
Now cancelled by Labour anyway as too expensive.

this is a what if situation and only way she would go into a care home would be if me or my sister could not cope

15 years ago i cared for last 2 years of another relative who was dying /i  paid for carers and adapted a  bedroom  and bought a hospital bed / albeit nhs provided all the oxygen tanks /nebulisers /bath and shower mobilty items /

carers were women most of the time and not strong enough phycially to move someone who is a dead weight .

govt finances in a poor state

they are always in a poor state no matter what party is in power.

fine i beleive there should be a total cap on care home fees so people can plan.

cheap shot on my mothers choice of care home

 she would be an 82 year old on her own living in a newham council estate /  on basic state pension worried about turning on the the cost of heating /electric /food / etc in a property with no downstairs toilet/ no downstairs bedroom and a set of stairs she could never get up unless modified with the stair chair

instead she lives totally bill free in a double fronted detached bungalow with /no water/gas /electric/tv package/phone /food/insurance/car costs//transported everywhere/ i buy whatever furniture she wants and renovated the property to her taste /she gets taken everywhere everyday /

chelmsford/frinton/upminster/colchester /london/ she is currently in scotland and i drive up there wed to bring her home-not many pensioners on basic state pension get that lifestyle

just my litte rant to show i do care about her.

Albermarle

dinosaur66 said:

Albermarle said:

only option i know is to sell the property and buy us another similar property and put it in my sole name bringing my mothers liabilty down to nothing and my fee for doing this would be about 25k in stamp duty and conveyencing fees

So you would be happy for your Mum to have no choice of which care home to go to, and for her just to be sent to the cheapest one the council can allocated for her ?

i was hoping last conservative govt plan to max care fees at i think it was 90k would go through but labour scrapped it as soon as they took power-
The cap was only on care costs, not on daily living, rent, energy etc even if in a care home. So the actual cap in practice would have been much higher. Also as care costs come under the local authority, they objected unless the Govt gave them extra funding. So it was delayed until at least Oct 2025 due to mainly wrangling about funding it with the Govt finances in such a poor state.
Now cancelled by Labour anyway as too expensive.

this is a what if situation and only way she would go into a care home would be if me or my sister could not cope

15 years ago i cared for last 2 years of another relative who was dying /i  paid for carers and adapted a  bedroom  and bought a hospital bed / albeit nhs provided all the oxygen tanks /nebulisers /bath and shower mobilty items /

carers were women most of the time and not strong enough phycially to move someone who is a dead weight .

govt finances in a poor state

they are always in a poor state no matter what party is in power.

fine i beleive there should be a total cap on care home fees so people can plan.

cheap shot on my mothers choice of care home

 she would be an 82 year old on her own living in a newham council estate /  on basic state pension worried about turning on the the cost of heating /electric /food / etc in a property with no downstairs toilet/ no downstairs bedroom and a set of stairs she could never get up unless modified with the stair chair

instead she lives totally bill free in a double fronted detached bungalow with /no water/gas /electric/tv package/phone /food/insurance/car costs//transported everywhere/ i buy whatever furniture she wants and renovated the property to her taste /she gets taken everywhere everyday /

chelmsford/frinton/upminster/colchester /london/ she is currently in scotland and i drive up there wed to bring her home-not many pensioners on basic state pension get that lifestyle

just my litte rant to show i do care about her.

It was not a cheap shot.
Just pointing out that if she has no/little assets to her name ( because you now own the house ) and she relies on council funding, they will choose the care home and it will be pot luck if it is a good one or not.

If the care home was not very nice then you may feel you have to pay for a better one, which would be back to square one I suppose.

drlabman

dinosaur66 said:

sorry for jumping in on your thread i have a different situation but on the same topic that i could use some advice on.

i was and have always been  single never married and no children

in the 90s i bought my mothers council house in london under the right to buy 62k - from memory in order to buy it i had to move back in and pay the council full rent of £100 a week approx for 18 months to fufil council criteria of right to buy / my mother was a housewife /widow on a peppercorn benefit rent and had no money whatsoever / but i think it went in my mothers name because she was the tennant cant remember exactly

i sold the right to buy property  in 2003  and bought a property with 100% contributon from me only in essex 250k

i had the property put in joint names 50/50 as in 2003 inheritiance tax was 255k ceiling and thought at 125k each we would both be ok as inheritiance tax threshold back in 2003 used to be raised with inflation every year and i thought as a 30 something that i would never ever get near the inheritance tax threshold .

naive on my part

now to limit my exposure to worst case scenario and mother has to go into private care home what are my options

only option i know is to sell the property and buy us another similar property and put it in my sole name bringing my mothers liabilty down to nothing and my fee for doing this would be about 25k in stamp duty and conveyencing fees

i was hoping last conservative govt plan to max care fees at i think it was 90k would go through but labour scrapped it as soon as they took power-

i would have just put 90k cash aside and end of problem or insurance around this would have popped up and you could have paid that.

i am guessing in my situation this splitting of property into tennants in common incur very large various taxes  say 98-2 split ?

i have seen another term used for something else but every scenario i looked at was husband and wife/divorce /first buying of a house etc etc

never son and mother

I have no problem with you hijacking the thread per se, but you would be better off creating a new thread with a title more appropriate for your situation.  You might get wider interest.  Not sure how we get the mods to do this?

dinosaur66

Albermarle said:

dinosaur66 said:

Albermarle said:

only option i know is to sell the property and buy us another similar property and put it in my sole name bringing my mothers liabilty down to nothing and my fee for doing this would be about 25k in stamp duty and conveyencing fees

So you would be happy for your Mum to have no choice of which care home to go to, and for her just to be sent to the cheapest one the council can allocated for her ?

i was hoping last conservative govt plan to max care fees at i think it was 90k would go through but labour scrapped it as soon as they took power-
The cap was only on care costs, not on daily living, rent, energy etc even if in a care home. So the actual cap in practice would have been much higher. Also as care costs come under the local authority, they objected unless the Govt gave them extra funding. So it was delayed until at least Oct 2025 due to mainly wrangling about funding it with the Govt finances in such a poor state.
Now cancelled by Labour anyway as too expensive.

this is a what if situation and only way she would go into a care home would be if me or my sister could not cope

15 years ago i cared for last 2 years of another relative who was dying /i  paid for carers and adapted a  bedroom  and bought a hospital bed / albeit nhs provided all the oxygen tanks /nebulisers /bath and shower mobilty items /

carers were women most of the time and not strong enough phycially to move someone who is a dead weight .

govt finances in a poor state

they are always in a poor state no matter what party is in power.

fine i beleive there should be a total cap on care home fees so people can plan.

cheap shot on my mothers choice of care home

 she would be an 82 year old on her own living in a newham council estate /  on basic state pension worried about turning on the the cost of heating /electric /food / etc in a property with no downstairs toilet/ no downstairs bedroom and a set of stairs she could never get up unless modified with the stair chair

instead she lives totally bill free in a double fronted detached bungalow with /no water/gas /electric/tv package/phone /food/insurance/car costs//transported everywhere/ i buy whatever furniture she wants and renovated the property to her taste /she gets taken everywhere everyday /

chelmsford/frinton/upminster/colchester /london/ she is currently in scotland and i drive up there wed to bring her home-not many pensioners on basic state pension get that lifestyle

just my litte rant to show i do care about her.

It was not a cheap shot.
Just pointing out that if she has no/little assets to her name ( because you now own the house ) and she relies on council funding, they will choose the care home and it will be pot luck if it is a good one or not.

If the care home was not very nice then you may feel you have to pay for a better one, which would be back to square one I suppose.

fair enough

 i have been in my local private and council care homes here in my town in essex/ only difference i can see is the private ones have nice grounds on much bigger plots / and a few of them are new builds  / whereas the council ones look just like that council buildings / but inside the large meeting room and then the rooms are of a similar size /albeit the doors and decor inside are nicer presented than the council ones .

main concern for me would be alzeihmers but there has never been a case in her family / i am confident if it is just general old age then i can cope no problem / at the moment she requires no care wahtsoever bar me adapting the steps as she struggles to raise her hips high/

if i sold up moved to glasgow bought a lovely bungalow in newton mearns on flat land then she would love it

newton mearns is glasgows equivelent of hampstead heath although way cheaper

she has huge extended family there.