Sacked for not doing overtime - grey area?

LightFlare

In hindsight - why did it reach a heated debate

Just say - “I won’t be able to finish that within my working hours today and am unable to work beyond that today. What do you want me to do?”

If they insist on finishing it - send the same via email (or whatever) to get a permanent copy

Its called covering your ar*e

LightFlare

Emmia said:

Abbafan1972 said:

what is a “protected characteristic” ? 

Are you female, trans, gay, non white, disabled, believe in a minority religion... are married /unmarried -.are any of those a reason for this situation?

Or is it that you just didn't want to do the overtime?

https://www.gov.uk/discrimination-your-rights

Thats discriminatory against white,straight males 

That’s why the gov.uk document is VERY careful in the language it uses

Emmia

LightFlare said:

Emmia said:

Abbafan1972 said:

what is a “protected characteristic” ? 

Are you female, trans, gay, non white, disabled, believe in a minority religion... are married /unmarried -.are any of those a reason for this situation?

Or is it that you just didn't want to do the overtime?

https://www.gov.uk/discrimination-your-rights

Thats discriminatory against white,straight males 

That’s why the gov.uk document is VERY careful in the language it uses

But being a white straight male usually means you don't have any protected characteristics... We don't know whether the OP is a white straight male, or if they are in a job where being a white straight male makes them in a minority...

What we do know is there may have been a heated "discussion" and as they've been there less than 2 years, the employer decided to save the stress and just get rid... There may also be background where the OP is seen as "difficult" for some reason or other - which may (in the employers eyes) strengthen the rationale.

DullGreyGuy

LightFlare said:

Emmia said:

Abbafan1972 said:

what is a “protected characteristic” ? 

Are you female, trans, gay, non white, disabled, believe in a minority religion... are married /unmarried -.are any of those a reason for this situation?

Or is it that you just didn't want to do the overtime?

https://www.gov.uk/discrimination-your-rights

Thats discriminatory against white,straight males 

That’s why the gov.uk document is VERY careful in the language it uses

Discrimination can happen no matter your race, sexual orientation or gender. Without doubt it's more likely to happen against some than others but ultimately can happen to anyone. 

Emmia said:

LightFlare said:

Emmia said:

Abbafan1972 said:

what is a “protected characteristic” ? 

Are you female, trans, gay, non white, disabled, believe in a minority religion... are married /unmarried -.are any of those a reason for this situation?

Or is it that you just didn't want to do the overtime?

https://www.gov.uk/discrimination-your-rights

Thats discriminatory against white,straight males 

That’s why the gov.uk document is VERY careful in the language it uses

But being a white straight male usually means you don't have any protected characteristics... We don't know whether the OP is a white straight male, or if they are in a job where being a white straight male makes them in a minority... 

You've listed three protected characteristics already.


Ultimately we dont know what job the OP was doing, what their operating procedures were nor how "heated" the debate became. Certainly in my call centre days if you took a call you had to finish it properly even if it took you beyond the end of your shift. Most calls were circa 5-6 minutes so it's no big deal but you could get a minority that last much longer (but no way near 10 hours). They were very hot on people moving from "available" to "unavailable" and back again in the closing minutes of the shift as it put you to the back of the queue and there were some dismissed for either this or cutting the caller off. 

Ultimately, less than 2 years service you're easy to be dismissed, they dont even have to explain why. It is difficult to prove that it was because of a protected characteristic

Undervalued

DullGreyGuy said:

LightFlare said:

Emmia said:

Abbafan1972 said:

what is a “protected characteristic” ? 

Are you female, trans, gay, non white, disabled, believe in a minority religion... are married /unmarried -.are any of those a reason for this situation?

Or is it that you just didn't want to do the overtime?

https://www.gov.uk/discrimination-your-rights

Thats discriminatory against white,straight males 

That’s why the gov.uk document is VERY careful in the language it uses

Discrimination can happen no matter your race, sexual orientation or gender. Without doubt it's more likely to happen against some than others but ultimately can happen to anyone. 

Emmia said:

LightFlare said:

Emmia said:

Abbafan1972 said:

what is a “protected characteristic” ? 

Are you female, trans, gay, non white, disabled, believe in a minority religion... are married /unmarried -.are any of those a reason for this situation?

Or is it that you just didn't want to do the overtime?

https://www.gov.uk/discrimination-your-rights

Thats discriminatory against white,straight males 

That’s why the gov.uk document is VERY careful in the language it uses

But being a white straight male usually means you don't have any protected characteristics... We don't know whether the OP is a white straight male, or if they are in a job where being a white straight male makes them in a minority... 

You've listed three protected characteristics already.


Ultimately we dont know what job the OP was doing, what their operating procedures were nor how "heated" the debate became. Certainly in my call centre days if you took a call you had to finish it properly even if it took you beyond the end of your shift. Most calls were circa 5-6 minutes so it's no big deal but you could get a minority that last much longer (but no way near 10 hours). They were very hot on people moving from "available" to "unavailable" and back again in the closing minutes of the shift as it put you to the back of the queue and there were some dismissed for either this or cutting the caller off. 

Ultimately, less than 2 years service you're easy to be dismissed, they dont even have to explain why. It is difficult to prove that it was because of a protected characteristic

Exactly.

Whilst theoretically the OP is entitled to a statement of the reasons for his dismissal there is no practical legal route to force them to provide one. Any solicitor acting the company would tell them not to!

Even if there were genuine reasons to suggest discrimination on one of legally protected grounds the OP would still need to show that was the actual reason for their dismissal. Being disabled, of a different race or religion etc doesn't mean you can't be sacked for other reasons or, with less than two years service, for absolutely no reason at all.

One or two of the earlier posts in this thread come very close to suggesting the OP falsely "plays the discrimination card". I hope that wasn't their intention!

Cobbler_tone

Regardless of service, I think it demonstrates what a bubble (with 30 years service at a blue chip company) I live in!
I find it staggering in 2024 that you can be dismissed on the spot without any kind of HR process, including appeals etc. 
I know in my organisation, whether you had been there 5 minutes or 5 years, you wouldn't get away with dismissing someone without a trail of meetings and documentation. 

In terms of the actual reasons. Unless it formed part of a contract, in 'normal' circumstances you wouldn't be sacked for refusing over time, especially above working a 50 hour gross week.

Cobbler_tone

You've listed three protected characteristics already.

Being discriminated against for being a middle aged, white male is a bit of a joke in our workplace.

Brie

Voyager2002 said:

Thinking about "protected characteristics"... was the reason that you were unable to do overtime related to your skin colour; your gender; your sexuality; a disability (even a very minor one)? If you could make any kind of argument that you were the victim of indirect discrimination then they would need to prepare for a tribunal hearing, and that would be sufficient trouble for them to stop them doing this to anyone else.

@Voyager2002 - just for future reference gender is not a protected characteristic.  Sex is and my guess is that that's what you meant.  It's a common mistake that has unfortunately been repeated in lots of documents.    

leew

NCC1701-A said:

leew said:

Hi all,

Here goes, no idea about this really but just thought I'd throw it out there to maybe someone more clued up than myself!

Last Thursday I was coming towards the end of my 10hr shift - normally do 10hrs Mon-Fri as do most of the others unless of course you agree to do more - to add nothing stated in my contract regards compulsory overtime and not had any issues before.

I get a phone call towards the end of the day telling me to do another job which I and most right minded people will know will take me over 10hrs to which I say I won't have time which meets deaf ears really is best to describe it! after a bit of a heated debate shall we say!

I was told to return to the office to which I did and the time was 1615 - I am due off at 1630, nothing was said so I went home as per usual.

I got in the next morning at 630am and was told to clear my desk! reason given was 'I refused to do the work" to which I replied, no I didn't want any overtime but that didn't cut it.

I do feel very aggrieved to be honest, never been sacked in my life! I spoke to ACAS who said I haven't a chance with this because I've not been there 2yrs+ - 10mths I was there.

I know alot of my work colleagues were shocked and couldn't believe how they could just sack you on the spot in this instance.

Anyone have any thoughts please? probably wasting my time writing this but needed to hopefully get some opinions.

Thanks. 

You normally do 10hr shifts 5 days a week? Did you opt out of the working time directive?

What does your dismissal letter say as the reason for terminating your contract? Is there an email chain for the disputed extra work/ overtime?

Yep, 50hr week I do normally - I have done more on occasion and a little less too like 48 - 49hrs.

I haven't opted in or out since I started, just went about my work.

No letter or anything regards the dismissal, just a 2 minute conversation at 630am on a Friday morning, didn't even have the courtesy to let me know the previous day but that doesn't surprise me I'll be honest. 

DullGreyGuy

Cobbler_tone said:

You've listed three protected characteristics already.

Being discriminated against for being a middle aged, white male is a bit of a joke in our workplace.

In most places it will be but there have been successful cases of white cis males claiming discrimination, Thames Valley Police early this year were found to have discriminated against 3 white male officers by advertising a new job but then simply selecting a female asian person for the promotion without actually running any form of competitive process