Self-employed, starting PT salaried job

400ixl

Marcon said:

400ixl said:

Self employed would likely be a contractor to them and means that they then have to follow the IR35 rules unless you could be classed as a supplier and you invoice through your sole trader business.

What type of work will you be doing?

IR35 doesn't apply to sole traders, whether described as contractors or anything else.

Erm, exactly, they would be seen as a contractor not a sole trader for most employee type roles so IR35 could well apply.

Only if it is a role which could be seen as a supplier and not an employee would come into the sole trader category.

As the OP is not answering the question of what the role is, then the most likely answer is that it would be a contractor role if not directly employed.

Dazed_and_C0nfused

David333 said:

Dazed_and_C0nfused said:

David333 said:

Dazed_and_C0nfused said:

David333 said:

DullGreyGuy said:

David333 said:

I have been self-employed this tax year (online editing and lecturing), but have just been offered a part-time salaried role for a company. I intend to continue with the self-employed work, alongside the new role. Does the company have to pay me through PAYE or can I request them to treat me as self-employed? If the latter, does that affect my position with the company? Thank you!

For the avoidance of doubt, by "self employed" you mean you're a sole trader rather than operating via your own LTD company? 

In principle they could take you on as a self employed contractor but its a risk for them potentially and as a consequence they may not be willing to do so (see Uber who's drivers were self employed until challenged in court and then had their status changed to "worker" and backdated pay etc). There are online tests either you or they could do to determine if you're likely to be considered self employed or worker etc. 

It would impact your position, as not being an employee or worker you arent entitled to holiday, sick pay, pension etc. Pay doesn't have to meet NMW. If you are going to employee events, employer funded training etc it increases the chances of you being identified as an employee not contractor so its likely you'll be excluded from certain things. Notice period can be instant etc.

Normally as a contractor you'd expect more money than a permie would get to make up for the risk you are taking and the other things they dont have to pay for but given you're the one wanting it rather than them your arent in a great position to request an uplift for being self employed.

Yes, sole trader. That's great, thank you! Their form mentions a HMRC employee statement. Would A be true?

A - This is my first job since last 6 April and I have not been receiving taxable Jobseeker's Allowance, Employment and Support Allowance, taxable Incapacity Benefit, State or Occupational Pension.

B - This is now my only job but since last 6 April I have had another job, or received taxable Jobseeker's Allowance, Employment and Support Allowance or taxable Incapacity Benefit. I do not receive a State or Occupational Pension.

C - As well as my new job, I have another job or receive a State or Occupational Pension.

The starter checklist famously doesn't cover the scenario of someone who is self employed.

So you can select whichever statement that suits you best really.

A = the emergency tax code (1257L) will be used by your new employer on a cumulative basis.  So you will only pay tax once you have earned more than your tax code allowances (£8,386 to tax month 8, which ends on 5 December)

B = the emergency tax code (1257L) will be used by your employer on a non cumulative basis.  So for a monthly pay period tax would only be deducted if you earn more than £1,048

C = BR (basic rate) tax code will be used and 20% tax deducted from each payment.

As you filing Self Assessment returns you essentially have a choice of paying more tax now and getting a smaller Self Assessment liability.  Or paying less (or no) tax now and having more to pay via Self Assessment.

It's a part-time job for the next three months, so I'll only get £3,000 from it. I'll be at around £15,000 in self-employment profits this year. Tbh, I'd prefer to pay no tax on the salaried job, so for the next three months I'll live on that. Then towards the end of the tax year, I'll try to earn enough from self-employment to live whilst trying not to earn too much, so my Self Assessment isn't too high. Would that therefore be A?

Yes, you would be on the emergency code and pay no tax on £3,000 (providing it was paid before 6 April 2025.

Any tax owed would come out in the wash via your Self Assessment return.

Thank you. I can opt out of pension contributions too, I think (and I'm not sure if I would pay any in those first three months anyway), so essentially I should receive the entire salary with no deductions each month. Silly question in a way, but on my Self Assessment I'm presuming I'll add it to the PAYE box, but essentially it will just count as normal income that I'll need to take into account on my Excel tax document (£15,000 of self-employment income, £3,000 of PAYE income=£18,000 of income that I declare on the Self Assessment).

Why on earth would you want to do that?

Get a new job and immediately say you're not bothered about having some of your remuneration 😳

It might not be huge amounts but free money is free money!

And yes, you declare the taxable earnings on an employment page of your return.  And it is taxed in the same way as self employment profits.

David333

Dazed_and_C0nfused said:

David333 said:

Dazed_and_C0nfused said:

David333 said:

Dazed_and_C0nfused said:

David333 said:

DullGreyGuy said:

David333 said:

I have been self-employed this tax year (online editing and lecturing), but have just been offered a part-time salaried role for a company. I intend to continue with the self-employed work, alongside the new role. Does the company have to pay me through PAYE or can I request them to treat me as self-employed? If the latter, does that affect my position with the company? Thank you!

For the avoidance of doubt, by "self employed" you mean you're a sole trader rather than operating via your own LTD company? 

In principle they could take you on as a self employed contractor but its a risk for them potentially and as a consequence they may not be willing to do so (see Uber who's drivers were self employed until challenged in court and then had their status changed to "worker" and backdated pay etc). There are online tests either you or they could do to determine if you're likely to be considered self employed or worker etc. 

It would impact your position, as not being an employee or worker you arent entitled to holiday, sick pay, pension etc. Pay doesn't have to meet NMW. If you are going to employee events, employer funded training etc it increases the chances of you being identified as an employee not contractor so its likely you'll be excluded from certain things. Notice period can be instant etc.

Normally as a contractor you'd expect more money than a permie would get to make up for the risk you are taking and the other things they dont have to pay for but given you're the one wanting it rather than them your arent in a great position to request an uplift for being self employed.

Yes, sole trader. That's great, thank you! Their form mentions a HMRC employee statement. Would A be true?

A - This is my first job since last 6 April and I have not been receiving taxable Jobseeker's Allowance, Employment and Support Allowance, taxable Incapacity Benefit, State or Occupational Pension.

B - This is now my only job but since last 6 April I have had another job, or received taxable Jobseeker's Allowance, Employment and Support Allowance or taxable Incapacity Benefit. I do not receive a State or Occupational Pension.

C - As well as my new job, I have another job or receive a State or Occupational Pension.

The starter checklist famously doesn't cover the scenario of someone who is self employed.

So you can select whichever statement that suits you best really.

A = the emergency tax code (1257L) will be used by your new employer on a cumulative basis.  So you will only pay tax once you have earned more than your tax code allowances (£8,386 to tax month 8, which ends on 5 December)

B = the emergency tax code (1257L) will be used by your employer on a non cumulative basis.  So for a monthly pay period tax would only be deducted if you earn more than £1,048

C = BR (basic rate) tax code will be used and 20% tax deducted from each payment.

As you filing Self Assessment returns you essentially have a choice of paying more tax now and getting a smaller Self Assessment liability.  Or paying less (or no) tax now and having more to pay via Self Assessment.

It's a part-time job for the next three months, so I'll only get £3,000 from it. I'll be at around £15,000 in self-employment profits this year. Tbh, I'd prefer to pay no tax on the salaried job, so for the next three months I'll live on that. Then towards the end of the tax year, I'll try to earn enough from self-employment to live whilst trying not to earn too much, so my Self Assessment isn't too high. Would that therefore be A?

Yes, you would be on the emergency code and pay no tax on £3,000 (providing it was paid before 6 April 2025.

Any tax owed would come out in the wash via your Self Assessment return.

Thank you. I can opt out of pension contributions too, I think (and I'm not sure if I would pay any in those first three months anyway), so essentially I should receive the entire salary with no deductions each month. Silly question in a way, but on my Self Assessment I'm presuming I'll add it to the PAYE box, but essentially it will just count as normal income that I'll need to take into account on my Excel tax document (£15,000 of self-employment income, £3,000 of PAYE income=£18,000 of income that I declare on the Self Assessment).

Why on earth would you want to do that?

Get a new job and immediately say you're not bothered about having some of your remuneration 😳

It might not be huge amounts but free money is free money!

And yes, you declare the taxable earnings on an employment page of your return.  And it is taxed in the same way as self employment profits.

I take the point, but it's a small amount of money in the future in exchange for some of my money now. And now isn't great.

DullGreyGuy

400ixl said:

Marcon said:

400ixl said:

Self employed would likely be a contractor to them and means that they then have to follow the IR35 rules unless you could be classed as a supplier and you invoice through your sole trader business.

What type of work will you be doing?

IR35 doesn't apply to sole traders, whether described as contractors or anything else.

Erm, exactly, they would be seen as a contractor not a sole trader for most employee type roles so IR35 could well apply.

Only if it is a role which could be seen as a supplier and not an employee would come into the sole trader category.

As the OP is not answering the question of what the role is, then the most likely answer is that it would be a contractor role if not directly employed.

A contractor can be a sole trader or operate via a Ltd its independent to IR35

IR35 only applies when there is an entity between the client and the human doing the work, for a sole trader there is no entity so IR35 never applies. If you operate with a Ltd then there is another entity, the company itself, and thats why IR35 applies.