Landlord installed solar panels MCS issue

SBarnard

Thanks for all the info so far!

I now know who my DNO is (National Grid) and I can call them and find out, and I found my MPAN too.

I'm currently waiting on the HA response, which is likely to be towards the end of next week.
In the meantime, my Octopus account seems to indicate that the panels on their own, without the export, is saving me around £4 a week - so should be more when we get longer days.

I'll keep you al updated!

SBarnard

70sbudgie said:

To obtain an export tariff, your installation also needs to be approved by the DNO. If this has been done, there will be an email from the DNO. Have you asked the HA / installer about this?

If they won't/ can't provide this, I would suggest that you contact your DNO and ask if they have received a G98 notification/ G99 application for your property. You will need your import MPAN for this. As the legal occupier of the premises, they can't with hold that information from you. 

Your MPAN (meter point access number) will be on your electricity bills. It is a 16 digit number unique to your meter location. I thought that it was one of the bits of data covered by GDPR, but have recently learned that there are online tools that allow you to look up your MPAN with your address.

Apparently, yes they can - reply from National Grid:
Thank you for your email. Unfortunately this would be something that you would need to discuss with your landlord as they would be the people that requested the installation and it is their property I’m sorry.

Heedtheadvice

SBarnard said:

Thanks for all the info so far!

I now know who my DNO is (National Grid) and I can call them and find out, and I found my MPAN too.

I'm currently waiting on the HA response, which is likely to be towards the end of next week.
In the meantime, my Octopus account seems to indicate that the panels on their own, without the export, is saving me around £4 a week - so should be more when we get longer days.

I'll keep you al updated!

As long as you are not getting paid fir export, it could be in your interests ( especially when generation is high) to use to the max any solar generation. 

This is obviously in the sunniest periods (so non too much this time of year and over winter) but using those appliances that have highest demand during the high periods of generation let's you benefit most from gen rather than export it.

It is all too infrequent that the generation reaches peak ( number of panels x their individual power). Using lots of appliances that consume more than generation power will cost you. You may need to stagger those that use heat to spread the load to try and match generation times.

Without a power monitor that is not easy but apart from really good generation times a rule of thumb might be to expect 50% power gen in sunny conditions and 25% during light cloud (except in the next few month!!)...or purchase a cheap monitor?

Qyburn

Do you have the Octopus "Home Mini"? That gives a near realtime reading from your smart meter. Some people find it shows export, ours doesn't it just reads zero when we're exporting. That's a compatibility issue with some smart meters. Nevertheless it's a guide, if it's sunny and the Mini reads zero then make use of the free power.

SBarnard

An update - but not a final answer, yet!

HA rep came out to discuss today, and the conclusion is that the HA got offered cash to install solar panels and didn't really think it through - which has pretty much been their pattern for the past 12 years.

They "can" give tenants the MCS and G98, but think that may cause issues with their non-profit status and may not be a fair way of using the SEG. The concern is that tenants may have issue with some houses having more panels than others, flats would work differently to houses, etc. TBH I found some of his arguments a bit loose, and he and I agree that the powers that be higher up have not considered all possibilities, or the legal implications, or the level of admin it might take.
The other option would be for the HA to take the SEG and use it to reinvest in their housing stock - they are working towards de-carboning all their homes with improved insulation, better windows, air source heat pumps.

However, to do this they would need to come back and tinker with the fuse box they installed. He also said he's spoken to other tenants who have flat out refused to allow them back to do that, and are insisting on getting the MCS/G98.
So, HA has a can of worms they've opened up, and now they have to work out how to deal with it!
Part of the discussion did touch on the idea that if you want the tenants to be greener in their energy use, then give them the motivation to do so. If a tenant is getting the SEG, then they'll likely use less energy to maximise the payment. But, if the HA is taking it, then it is likely the tenant would be charging everything, doing laundry, cooking, etc while the sun shines - to make the most of the panels, and could reduce the SEG the HA gets.
So, they're on the case, and will let me (and other tenants) know what's going on when they have answers, but it's likely to be a while. In the meantime, the National Grid is getting freebies, which will relieve burden, and my electric bills should start to go down a bit.

Qyburn

SBarnard said:

The other option would be for the HA to take the SEG and use it to reinvest in their housing stock - they are working towards de-carboning all their homes with improved insulation, better windows, air source heat pumps.

HA would only get around 5p/kWh, whereas tenants could be getting 15p.

tunnel

SBarnard said:

However, to do this they would need to come back and tinker with the fuse box they installed. He also said he's spoken to other tenants who have flat out refused to allow them back to do that, and are insisting on getting the MCS/G98.

Surely refusal would be the quickest way of getting notice to leave.
 

If a tenant is getting the SEG, then they'll likely use less energy to maximise the payment. But, if the HA is taking it, then it is likely the tenant would be charging everything, doing laundry, cooking, etc while the sun shines - to make the most of the panels, and could reduce the SEG the HA gets.

Why would a tenant use less, it's cost the tenant nothing to install the system or to generate the leccy but to buy it would be around 24p per kWh, makes no sense whatsoever to send the leccy back to the grid....
 

greenbee

SBarnard said:

An update - but not a final answer, yet!

HA rep came out to discuss today, and the conclusion is that the HA got offered cash to install solar panels and didn't really think it through - which has pretty much been their pattern for the past 12 years.

They "can" give tenants the MCS and G98, but think that may cause issues with their non-profit status and may not be a fair way of using the SEG. The concern is that tenants may have issue with some houses having more panels than others, flats would work differently to houses, etc. TBH I found some of his arguments a bit loose, and he and I agree that the powers that be higher up have not considered all possibilities, or the legal implications, or the level of admin it might take.
The other option would be for the HA to take the SEG and use it to reinvest in their housing stock - they are working towards de-carboning all their homes with improved insulation, better windows, air source heat pumps.

However, to do this they would need to come back and tinker with the fuse box they installed. He also said he's spoken to other tenants who have flat out refused to allow them back to do that, and are insisting on getting the MCS/G98.
So, HA has a can of worms they've opened up, and now they have to work out how to deal with it!
Part of the discussion did touch on the idea that if you want the tenants to be greener in their energy use, then give them the motivation to do so. If a tenant is getting the SEG, then they'll likely use less energy to maximise the payment. But, if the HA is taking it, then it is likely the tenant would be charging everything, doing laundry, cooking, etc while the sun shines - to make the most of the panels, and could reduce the SEG the HA gets.
So, they're on the case, and will let me (and other tenants) know what's going on when they have answers, but it's likely to be a while. In the meantime, the National Grid is getting freebies, which will relieve burden, and my electric bills should start to go down a bit.

If the HA's aim is to decarbonise it's properties, then clearly the best outcome is for tenants to use as much of the solar as possible. They're already investing in reducing their tenants' costs. If they can't recover at least something via the SEG then that means less money for them to reinvest, whether in improving existing properties or building/buying new ones. The responsible thing for them to do is surely to try to get a return on their investment? 

SBarnard

An update for anyone interested.

The Housing Association have decided that they're going to take the SEG payments for themselves, and the revenue generated will be put towards eco improvements to all housing stock.

Reed_Richards

So it's all-you-can eat for you.  Use as much of the free solar electricity as you can, because you derive no financial benefit from exporting it.