Employer refusing to issue P60

pecunianonolet

Hi,

Asking for a friend who was asking me for help. He was employed by a large company that didn't have a UK legal entity and used a service provider instead to handle all HR matters. 

The company decided to move away from using a service partner and to use a own UK entity instead. The employment with the service provider ceases on 31st March 2024 and the employment with the company directly started under TUPE agreement from 1st of April.

At the beginning, HMRC was late to issue relevant data so didn't get live data for around 2 months (he claimed pension tax relief in May and was told this by the HMRC rep that they don't have live data). However, after everything was running data was provided to HMRC in the normal way he claims. Now that my friend looked into the tax affairs he realised that HMRC was showing that employment started on the 6th of April. He was given a P45 by the service provider at the time.

My friend left the company now in August and started a new job in September. The previous employer issued him now with a P45 and is arguing that the P45 has all the correct data and that a P60 is not needed and is not willing to issue that document, saying that employment started only on the 6th of April. The employment contract states start date 1st of April.

He started his new job mid of September and received end of September the last salary (holiday pay) from the old employer and part salary of the new employer and was emergency taxed with some ridiculous income assumptions by HMRC. In short his tax affairs are a bit of a mess as it seems and tax and finance are not his strongest so he asked for help.

Am I right in my assumptions, that

1. The employer provided incorrect data to HMRC (claiming start date 6th of April instead as 1st as per employment contract)

2. Is obliged by law to issue a P60 but is refusing because of the incorrect start date. He was employed by them on the 5th of April according to his contract.

Is there any way to get this corrected, he doesn't want to create too much trouble with the old employer as he doesn't want to burn his bridges in his industry

P.S. He is keen to have a P60 document for a future mortgage application and want's everything to be in order.

Dazed_and_C0nfused

Even if the new employment started on 1 April what evidence do you have that a P60 needs to be issued where no payments have been made in that tax year?

Marcon

pecunianonolet said:

Hi,

Asking for a friend who was asking me for help. He was employed by a large company that didn't have a UK legal entity and used a service provider instead to handle all HR matters. 

The company decided to move away from using a service partner and to use a own UK entity instead. The employment with the service provider ceases on 31st March 2024 and the employment with the company directly started under TUPE agreement from 1st of April.

At the beginning, HMRC was late to issue relevant data so didn't get live data for around 2 months (he claimed pension tax relief in May and was told this by the HMRC rep that they don't have live data). However, after everything was running data was provided to HMRC in the normal way he claims. Now that my friend looked into the tax affairs he realised that HMRC was showing that employment started on the 6th of April. He was given a P45 by the service provider at the time.

My friend left the company now in August and started a new job in September. The previous employer issued him now with a P45 and is arguing that the P45 has all the correct data and that a P60 is not needed and is not willing to issue that document, saying that employment started only on the 6th of April. The employment contract states start date 1st of April.

He started his new job mid of September and received end of September the last salary (holiday pay) from the old employer and part salary of the new employer and was emergency taxed with some ridiculous income assumptions by HMRC. In short his tax affairs are a bit of a mess as it seems and tax and finance are not his strongest so he asked for help.

Am I right in my assumptions, that

1. The employer provided incorrect data to HMRC (claiming start date 6th of April instead as 1st as per employment contract)

2. Is obliged by law to issue a P60 but is refusing because of the incorrect start date. He was employed by them on the 5th of April according to his contract.

Is there any way to get this corrected, he doesn't want to create too much trouble with the old employer as he doesn't want to burn his bridges in his industry

P.S. He is keen to have a P60 document for a future mortgage application and want's everything to be in order.

A P60 isn't essential for a mortgage application. See https://www.gov.uk/paye-forms-p45-p60-p11d/p60 

If you do not have a P60

If you cannot get a P60 from your employer, you can either:

• use your personal tax account to view or print the information that would be on the P60
• contact HM Revenue and Customs (HMRC) and ask for the information that would be on the P60

pecunianonolet

Dazed_and_C0nfused said:

Even if the new employment started on 1 April what evidence do you have that a P60 needs to be issued where no payments have been made in that tax year?

Not really understand your question, sorry. His assumption is based on https://www.gov.uk/get-paye-forms-p45-p60

He is of the opinion that whoever is the employer on the 5th of April has to issue a P60 as it details all employment income from that tax year. Of course, if you start on 1st of April with an employer they only start to pay you at the end of April but you had income from all the months before. The P45 and P60 would essentially show the same numbers.

In HMRC eyes you would have been 5 days unemployed when you left on 31st and they get told you started the new job only on the 6th when in fact you started on the 1st.

pecunianonolet

Marcon said:

pecunianonolet said:

Hi,

Asking for a friend who was asking me for help. He was employed by a large company that didn't have a UK legal entity and used a service provider instead to handle all HR matters. 

The company decided to move away from using a service partner and to use a own UK entity instead. The employment with the service provider ceases on 31st March 2024 and the employment with the company directly started under TUPE agreement from 1st of April.

At the beginning, HMRC was late to issue relevant data so didn't get live data for around 2 months (he claimed pension tax relief in May and was told this by the HMRC rep that they don't have live data). However, after everything was running data was provided to HMRC in the normal way he claims. Now that my friend looked into the tax affairs he realised that HMRC was showing that employment started on the 6th of April. He was given a P45 by the service provider at the time.

My friend left the company now in August and started a new job in September. The previous employer issued him now with a P45 and is arguing that the P45 has all the correct data and that a P60 is not needed and is not willing to issue that document, saying that employment started only on the 6th of April. The employment contract states start date 1st of April.

He started his new job mid of September and received end of September the last salary (holiday pay) from the old employer and part salary of the new employer and was emergency taxed with some ridiculous income assumptions by HMRC. In short his tax affairs are a bit of a mess as it seems and tax and finance are not his strongest so he asked for help.

Am I right in my assumptions, that

1. The employer provided incorrect data to HMRC (claiming start date 6th of April instead as 1st as per employment contract)

2. Is obliged by law to issue a P60 but is refusing because of the incorrect start date. He was employed by them on the 5th of April according to his contract.

Is there any way to get this corrected, he doesn't want to create too much trouble with the old employer as he doesn't want to burn his bridges in his industry

P.S. He is keen to have a P60 document for a future mortgage application and want's everything to be in order.

A P60 isn't essential for a mortgage application. See https://www.gov.uk/paye-forms-p45-p60-p11d/p60 

If you do not have a P60

If you cannot get a P60 from your employer, you can either:

• use your personal tax account to view or print the information that would be on the P60
• contact HM Revenue and Customs (HMRC) and ask for the information that would be on the P60

Will be a mortgage application abroad so issuing P60's are a lot easier than having to request letterheaded HMRC documents confirming things. 

Also, why is the employer not just simply creating this and issuing it in their payroll software, shouldn't take long. 

Marcon

pecunianonolet said:

Marcon said:

pecunianonolet said:

Hi,

Asking for a friend who was asking me for help. He was employed by a large company that didn't have a UK legal entity and used a service provider instead to handle all HR matters. 

The company decided to move away from using a service partner and to use a own UK entity instead. The employment with the service provider ceases on 31st March 2024 and the employment with the company directly started under TUPE agreement from 1st of April.

At the beginning, HMRC was late to issue relevant data so didn't get live data for around 2 months (he claimed pension tax relief in May and was told this by the HMRC rep that they don't have live data). However, after everything was running data was provided to HMRC in the normal way he claims. Now that my friend looked into the tax affairs he realised that HMRC was showing that employment started on the 6th of April. He was given a P45 by the service provider at the time.

My friend left the company now in August and started a new job in September. The previous employer issued him now with a P45 and is arguing that the P45 has all the correct data and that a P60 is not needed and is not willing to issue that document, saying that employment started only on the 6th of April. The employment contract states start date 1st of April.

He started his new job mid of September and received end of September the last salary (holiday pay) from the old employer and part salary of the new employer and was emergency taxed with some ridiculous income assumptions by HMRC. In short his tax affairs are a bit of a mess as it seems and tax and finance are not his strongest so he asked for help.

Am I right in my assumptions, that

1. The employer provided incorrect data to HMRC (claiming start date 6th of April instead as 1st as per employment contract)

2. Is obliged by law to issue a P60 but is refusing because of the incorrect start date. He was employed by them on the 5th of April according to his contract.

Is there any way to get this corrected, he doesn't want to create too much trouble with the old employer as he doesn't want to burn his bridges in his industry

P.S. He is keen to have a P60 document for a future mortgage application and want's everything to be in order.

A P60 isn't essential for a mortgage application. See https://www.gov.uk/paye-forms-p45-p60-p11d/p60 

If you do not have a P60

If you cannot get a P60 from your employer, you can either:

• use your personal tax account to view or print the information that would be on the P60
• contact HM Revenue and Customs (HMRC) and ask for the information that would be on the P60

Will be a mortgage application abroad so issuing P60's are a lot easier than having to request letterheaded HMRC documents confirming things. 

Also, why is the employer not just simply creating this and issuing it in their payroll software, shouldn't take long. 

No idea, but since he can print out the stuff from his personal tax account, it's a pretty pointless battle to have - or ask HMRC now.

Dazed_and_C0nfused

pecunianonolet said:

Dazed_and_C0nfused said:

Even if the new employment started on 1 April what evidence do you have that a P60 needs to be issued where no payments have been made in that tax year?

Not really understand your question, sorry. His assumption is based on https://www.gov.uk/get-paye-forms-p45-p60

He is of the opinion that whoever is the employer on the 5th of April has to issue a P60 as it details all employment income from that tax year. Of course, if you start on 1st of April with an employer they only start to pay you at the end of April but you had income from all the months before. The P45 and P60 would essentially show the same numbers.

In HMRC eyes you would have been 5 days unemployed when you left on 31st and they get told you started the new job only on the 6th when in fact you started on the 1st.

Quite often gov.uk oversimplifies things and doesn't provide the correct information.

If you look at the legislation you will see no P60 needs to be issued by his new employer.  That's the case even if he was recorded as starring that employment on 1 April (and wasn't paid before 6 April).

https://www.legislation.gov.uk/uksi/2003/2682/regulation/67

pecunianonolet

Dazed_and_C0nfused said:

pecunianonolet said:

Dazed_and_C0nfused said:

Even if the new employment started on 1 April what evidence do you have that a P60 needs to be issued where no payments have been made in that tax year?

Not really understand your question, sorry. His assumption is based on https://www.gov.uk/get-paye-forms-p45-p60

He is of the opinion that whoever is the employer on the 5th of April has to issue a P60 as it details all employment income from that tax year. Of course, if you start on 1st of April with an employer they only start to pay you at the end of April but you had income from all the months before. The P45 and P60 would essentially show the same numbers.

In HMRC eyes you would have been 5 days unemployed when you left on 31st and they get told you started the new job only on the 6th when in fact you started on the 1st.

Quite often gov.uk oversimplifies things and doesn't provide the correct information.

If you look at the legislation you will see no P60 needs to be issued by his new employer.  That's the case even if he was recorded as starring that employment on 1 April (and wasn't paid before 6 April).

https://www.legislation.gov.uk/uksi/2003/2682/regulation/67

Thanks, I'll forward it on and tell him that he is fine an doesn't have to battle this further of getting the P60. Guess the only thing remaining is to clarify that the start date is recorded properly at HMRC side.

Dazed_and_C0nfused

pecunianonolet said:

Dazed_and_C0nfused said:

pecunianonolet said:

Dazed_and_C0nfused said:

Even if the new employment started on 1 April what evidence do you have that a P60 needs to be issued where no payments have been made in that tax year?

Not really understand your question, sorry. His assumption is based on https://www.gov.uk/get-paye-forms-p45-p60

He is of the opinion that whoever is the employer on the 5th of April has to issue a P60 as it details all employment income from that tax year. Of course, if you start on 1st of April with an employer they only start to pay you at the end of April but you had income from all the months before. The P45 and P60 would essentially show the same numbers.

In HMRC eyes you would have been 5 days unemployed when you left on 31st and they get told you started the new job only on the 6th when in fact you started on the 1st.

Quite often gov.uk oversimplifies things and doesn't provide the correct information.

If you look at the legislation you will see no P60 needs to be issued by his new employer.  That's the case even if he was recorded as starring that employment on 1 April (and wasn't paid before 6 April).

https://www.legislation.gov.uk/uksi/2003/2682/regulation/67

Thanks, I'll forward it on and tell him that he is fine an doesn't have to battle this further of getting the P60. Guess the only thing remaining is to clarify that the start date is recorded properly at HMRC side.

The start date should be whatever the employer has reported on their first Real Time Information submission.

I doubt very much HMRC would alter this, they would doubtless refer him to the employer if they have reported an incorrect date.

penners324

If he has a p45 from the service provider that is fine.

No P60 can be produced as there haven't been any payments to him by the new company in 2023/24. The p45 means there won't be a p60

Intoodeep

Why do people obsess about P60's when a P45 is of far more value for providing current information ?

And also a P60 is only issued at a particular time of the year (Week 52/53) if you are Employed by that Company.