ECP DCB LEGAL claim

stingyguji

Hi all,

Writing this as I have just received my "Letter of Claim" reg a private PCN back in 2021 by Euro Car parks. 

To paint a picture, we arrived in the evening at the car park around 20:15 as it was next to our hotel. Paid for 12 hours:


All was good, few weeks later received PCN stating "No valid pay and display/permit was purchased", which I appealed, got the below response:

Point 3 states an account does not exist, but that is not the case as I used the account in the screenshot above to pay for the parking. 

Also I noticed that the ANPR picked up the wrong times from when I entered:

As above it states I entered at 22:45, which is incorrect as I paid for parking at 20:12. Cannot recall the time I left (looks like 23:17, not sure if that is correct considering the incorrect entry time).

After the appeal was rejected, I did not pursue the matter further hoping it would go away (yes, I know), and now here we are with a "Letter of Claim" from their legal team (DCB Legal) with a 30 day window. So I am working on drafting up the response and needed a hand with wording the reason for dispute.

Here is the response I have drafted using the template found in the Newbie thread:

"Dear Sirs,

Your Ref. ############
Proposed Legal Proceedings
Claimant: xxxxxx xxxxxxxx Ltd

I refer to your letter of claim.

I confirm that my address for service for the time being - assuming you don't faff about and delay any claim - is as follows, and any older address must be erased from your records:
[Correct address here]

The alleged debt is disputed and any court proceedings will be vigorously defended.

I am sourcing and seeking independent debt advice and as such, I formally request that this matter be put on hold for an additional 30 days, in accordance with the Pre-Action Protocol for Debt Claims 2017 ('the PAP').

I note that the amount being claimed has increased by a hugely exaggerated amount which the Government called "extorting money from motorists".

Don't send me your usual blather about that.
I have two questions, and under the PAP I am entitled to specific answers:

1. Am I to understand that the additional £70 represents what you lot dress up as a 'Debt Recovery' fee, and if so, is this nett or inclusive of VAT? If the latter, would you kindly explain why I am being asked to pay the operator’s VAT?

2. With regard to the principal alleged PCN sum: Is this damages, or will it be pleaded as consideration for parking?

The time logged was incorrect as I entered the car park at 20:15 instead of 22:45. Also it states that "No valid pay and display/permit was purchased" when I have proof that a valid pay and display was purchased,

Yours faithfully"

Would appreciate any feedback before I send this off. Thank you all (:

stingyguji

Apologies for the accidental duplicate post, have reported for deletion.

Gr1pr

Just follow the advice in the newbies sticky thread in announcements, second post 

Email the response template to DCB legal 

Then report them to the Inland revenue once their response comes back 

Then start preparing for the inevitable court claim 

Thorndorise

I am 100% for you appealing this, but...I note with caution that your parking session that you've shown us is actually for 24hrs (not your quoted 12hrs) - which is a good thing...

However, those pics seem to be taken outside of that parking session window (running from 27/11/21 20:12 until 28/11/21 20:12). The images you've posted show 28/11/21 @ 22:45 entry and exit later that night...

Of course, follow all the great advice on here!

stingyguji

Thorndorise said:

I am 100% for you appealing this, but...I note with caution that your parking session that you've shown us is actually for 24hrs (not your quoted 12hrs) - which is a good thing...

However, those pics seem to be taken outside of that parking session window (running from 27/11/21 20:12 until 28/11/21 20:12). The images you've posted show 28/11/21 @ 22:45 entry and exit later that night...

Of course, follow all the great advice on here!

Might have been a mistake on my end. I believe we might've overstayed our welcome, hence getting the PCN. Regardless I will still send the email off and see where it goes from there.

Coupon-mad

Good.

The industry doesn't deserve your money.

Castle

Thorndorise said:

I am 100% for you appealing this, but...I note with caution that your parking session that you've shown us is actually for 24hrs (not your quoted 12hrs) - which is a good thing...

However, those pics seem to be taken outside of that parking session window (running from 27/11/21 20:12 until 28/11/21 20:12). The images you've posted show 28/11/21 @ 22:45 entry and exit later that night...

Of course, follow all the great advice on here!

The images are dated 28/12/21.

stingyguji

Gr1pr said:

Just follow the advice in the newbies sticky thread in announcements, second post 

Email the response template to DCB legal 

Then report them to the Inland revenue once their response comes back 

Then start preparing for the inevitable court claim 

So just got a response back from DCB Legal:

"We acknowledge the evidence you have kindly provided of a ticket purchased on site which gave you 24 hours parking from 27th December 2021 until 28th December 2021 from 8:12pm; however we refer you to the attached ANPR photographs which shows your vehicle entering and leaving site after the ticket expired.  

We also acknowledge that an appeal was lodged with our Client at the time the charge was issued to which our Client rejected.  

Our Client’s position remains as previously advised that the Parking Charge Notice was issued correctly.  

The sum added is a contribution to the actual costs incurred by our Client as a result of your non-payment. Our Client’s employees have spent time and material attempting to recover the debt. This is not our Client’s usual business and the resources could have been better spent in other areas of the business. Had you of paid as per the Contract, there would have been no need for recovery action so the amount due would not have increased. 

Please note, the HMRC ‘VAT Supply and Consideration manual’ (VATSC06140), which was last updated on 02 September 2020, confirmed that PCNs fall out of the scope of VAT.  

As per your request, your file will remain on hold for 30 days from the date of this email. After which, payment of the outstanding balance of £170.00 will be due. Failure to make payment will result in a Claim being issued against you without any further reference."

Whilst I wait for the inevitable court date, I will be reporting DCB to Inland Revenue. What would recommend I put down for the complaint?

Gr1pr

Possible vat fraud or Vat evasion on the additional £70 debt collectors charge , same as everyone else 

Everyone gets that incorrect template back, that includes bad grammar 

Had you of 

Coupon-mad

Search the forum for that letter. We didn't need to see it. Copy the HMRC report everyone else has done.

stingyguji

Working on drafting my defence currently. Will post back once I have a draft ready.