Barclaycard / PRA

danski39

Hi,

I can see from reading through other threads that this is a well worn topic, but can’t see anything that quite covers my situation, which is…

Had a Barclaycard for several years - was paying it off not using it, as originally it was a zero percent used to do a balance transfer. But when overall finances went south I missed a few monthly payments  in 2023 amounting to about £200 and in Nov they served a default notice and they then in late Dec demanded payment of the entire balance of about £1950. I wasn’t keeping on top of correspondence at the time and so didn’t enter into timely communication with them which meant situation escalated quite quickly. In late Jan 2024 they sold the debt to PRA who wrote to me on same day confirming same. In Mar 2024 they sent another letter dangling a discount settlement carrot without specifying a figure. And then I received third and final letter from PRA in May, this time threatening legal action in 30 days. There are then two letters from their nominated law firm in late July and early August with final notice of court action consideration. These last two letters were sent when I was away for two months dealing with family bereavement so couldn’t have responded sooner than this week. But prior correspondence leading up to this was received but not opened in time. That’s the whole trail.

Given the letters from lawyers and wanting to avoid court action, I emailed the lawyers and said I was keen to settle arrears but would need a bit of time. They came back immediately and said their client was willing to enter into an arrangement based on a repayment plan that was affordable to me. They have asked me to a name an amount. 

What would be my best course of action here in the opinion of those who have trodden this path before me?

Thanks for any guidance offered.

sourcrates

Well what are your intentions, you either pay it by arrangement, or you don`t.

If you don`t, the solicitors will probably be instructed to issue a claim against you, if you want to avoid that, make an arrangement.

The debt is only recently defaulted, likely enforceable, but you could make a CCA request as a delaying tactic.

agentblackcat

I would send a CCA request to PRA group. I did this and they are still looking for mine.  They might find it eventually however it means at the moment the debt is unenforceable. 

danski39

Thank you for your helpful responses. Does the advice to send a CCA request still apply at the stage where the new owners of the debt PRA have passed the matter over to a law firm? And if so should I be making the request to PRA or said law firm? I do fully intend to agree a repayment arrangement of course. And the law firm have stated that this would be acceptable. But I also need to do so in a way that allows me to prioritise the more urgent debts and to cover basic living expenses. Would a CCA be likely to trigger a less amicable approach from PRA / their lawyers? Sorry to bombard you with so many questions….

sourcrates

They are Solicitors, not lawyers, making a request for information under sec 77/79 CCA is one of your statutory rights.

They have no choice but to comply, the beauty of this piece of legislation, is that it has the automatic effect of putting your account "on hold", so it freezes everything until its been actioned.

This is why I advised this course of action, it will give you time to ascertain your position, and of course if they can`t produce what is legally required, your account will be unenforceable, and you could just walk away smiling.

danski39

Hi I’d like to give an update on my situation and would really welcome any feedback and suggestions on next step(s):

On reading the info here and on Debt Camel I decided I should do  a CCA request and on 3 Oct I stated as much to PRAs soliticors. Immediately got a response which I assume is standard where they said account would be put on hold while they requested the info from PRA.

On 30 Oct they sent by email - not post - the following attachments:

 1) a whole load of copy statements that look like computer generated records rather than copies of actual statements.

2) a set of generic terms and conditions which may or may not be the ones that applied at the point I took the credit card - not sure how I can tell.

3) a copy of a  letter from Barclaycard to PRA responding to their request for the info I asked for which said:

“Please find enclosed documentation under Section 78 of the Consumer Credit Act 1974 for our

mutual client as requested.

We have enclosed the following documents:

Short form cancellation

Historic terms and conditions

Varied terms and conditions”

4) A copy of a letter supposedly sent by Barclaycard to me on the same day in October (which seems odd as I am no longer their customer and I didn’t receive it anyway). This letter reads:

” Dear Mr XXXX

REFERENCE:SECTION78 OFTFIECONSUMERCREDITACT1974

I refer to your request for information.

The information we must provide to you under the terms of Section 78 of the Consumer Credit Act 1974 \(the "Act"\) is prescribed by the Act and by the Consumer Credit \(Cancellation Notices and Copies of' Documents\) Regulations 1983. Section 78 of the Act provides that, where a creditor receives a Section 78 request, the creditor shall give the debtor a copy of the executed agreement \(and any document referred to in it\)and a statement of the account.

I enclose a reconstituted copy of your credit agreement together with a copy of the terms of your credit agreement as varied in accordance with section 82\(1\) of the Act. This is a statement of the terms of your agreement with us and incorporates any variations to the terms made since you entered into this agreement. However, the interest rates, fees and charges set out in the agreement, may differ from those we have discussed with you, due to the current status of your account.

A statement of your account is below:

The current credit limit on your account is £0.00

The current balance on your account today is £Xxx

Due to the current status of your account, the full outstanding balance is now due.

This completes our obligations under Section 78 of the Act.

Yours Faithfully

XXX

Enclosed - Short form cancellation, Historic terms and conditions and Varied terms and conditions.


Apart from the fact that sending info via email rather than hard copies seems sub par to me, I can’t see anything apart from generic ts and cs and computer records of my account and the two letters above.  and I can’t see why Barclaycard are writing a letter to me this month which PRA have a copy and are forwarding to me. Does that all add up to a satisfactory response to a CCA request? I realise now that I made the request via email and didn’t send £1 PO (!!) - does that mean I am not actually entitled to a full response?

Any comments and suggestions on the above and on what my response should be would be much much appreciated.

Thx a lot

sourcrates

They say they have supplied a reconstituted copy of the credit agreement, have they?

If so and the details match, then there`s not much to pick up on.

danski39

sourcrates said:

They say they have supplied a reconstituted copy of the credit agreement, have they?

If so and the details match, then there`s not much to pick up on.

thanks for replying. They have sent me the items listed above - nothing more than that. Does a generic set of t & cs and a set of statements really constitute a credit agreement? And what should a ‘reconstituted’ credit agreement look like? 

and should Barclaycard be writing to me in Oct 24 telling me I have to pay off amount in full when they sold the debt to PRA in Jan 24? and should I be receiving that letter via PRA? 

fatbelly

There are two areas that are blurred.

1. Did you make a formal request under s77-9 CCA?

By not enclosing £1, I would think not. However they seem to have accepted it as such so you might get away with it at court if the other side doesn't bring it up.

2. Have they correctly reconstituted your agreement?

Again, I would think not. But even if I saw what they had sent, I couldn't predict how a court would view it.

To summarise, I could not be sure that this is an unenforceable debt. Equally they can't be sure this is enforceable.

Do you have a small sum that you could offer in full settlement on a without prejudice basis?

sourcrates

Well from what you have said it appears they have not included a copy of the reconstituted credit agreement.

A recon agreement can be made up of different bits of information already held on file by the company, but it should mirror as close as possible, the original document, if information is missing, they cannot just make it up.

It seems they can`t produce any of the financial information, so have pinned their hopes on generic terms and conditions and a cancelation form, non of which can be construed to resemble a credit agreement.

These documents, if they still exist, are always retained by the original lender, they do not pass to the new owner on sale of the debt, so PRA would have needed to go back to Barclaycard to obtain what information they still had on you, they work together quite closely so much so they likely use each others stationary/letters etc.

Of course they hope that you buy this hook, line and sinker, which is why they are demanding full payment, to ramp up the threat level and make what they have sent you look legitimate.

You ask "Does that all add up to a satisfactory response to a CCA request"? 

Well only a court can decide that one way or another, you can tell PRA Group your opinion on their response, which should align with my own view on the matter, that it does not constitute a satisfactory response to your request.

They may or may not choose to accept this, the only sure fire way to get a definitive answer is to see if they are willing to test it in court.

danski39

fatbelly said:

There are two areas that are blurred.

1. Did you make a formal request under s77-9 CCA?

By not enclosing £1, I would think not. However they seem to have accepted it as such so you might get away with it at court if the other side doesn't bring it up.

2. Have they correctly reconstituted your agreement?

Again, I would think not. But even if I saw what they had sent, I couldn't predict how a court would view it.

To summarise, I could not be sure that this is an unenforceable debt. Equally they can't be sure this is enforceable.

Do you have a small sum that you could offer in full settlement on a without prejudice basis?

Thank you for this. I will certainly enquire whether they need me to send £1 to obtain the correct information, and do so if that means they can.

It all seems surprisingly vague what does and doesn’t constitute a valid and complete CCA. Surely there are specific and definite elements which are required and not open to interpretation by the court or anyone else? It seems like based on your response and Sourcrate’s response below there are missing elements and that this could really only  be by deliberate omission or lack of availability.

In terms of making payments against the arrears I am in a better position than I was a month ago but still have mortgage and possibly some tax arrears and to prioritise and low and varying monthly income.  Buf if paying a reduced final amount were an  alternative to small monthly payments then I would look to work out if that was feasible.

I realise it’s not an exact science and situations and responses vary but based on past experience and knowledge of previous cases etc what would you consider a potentially acceptable monthly repayment and / or final settlement figure against a debt of £1900?

Thanks again for your input and sharing your knowledge