Just bought new flat and still renting: what about council tax?

lb00

Hi everyone,

My brother and I have been renting in London, and we’ve recently completed the purchase of a flat as joint tenants. We’ll be ending our rental tenancy in January, as that’s the earliest we can move out based on our contract.

Until January, my brother will be living in the new flat, while I’ll remain in the rented one. Both flats are within the same council.

Our question is about council tax: Do we need to pay full council tax on both properties? Or, since my brother will be the sole occupant of the new flat until January, can he apply for the single person discount on that property?

I assume I can’t apply for any discount on the rented flat as our tenancy agreement still has both of our names on it?

Thanks in advance for your advice!

FlorayG

Council tax depends ENTIRELY on actual residency, so you are both entitled to single person discount if there is only one person in each property. If your brother has changed his official address to the new flat them he no longer lives in the one you are in. Council isn't interested in how many people are listed on the tenancy, only how many are listed as living at the address

lincroft1710

FlorayG said:

Council tax depends ENTIRELY on actual residency, so you are both entitled to single person discount if there is only one person in each property. If your brother has changed his official address to the new flat them he no longer lives in the one you are in. Council isn't interested in how many people are listed on the tenancy, only how many are listed as living at the address

Not strictly true. If a dwelling is unoccupied but subject to an existing tenancy, the relevant council would want to know who  is named on the tenancy. 

lb00

lincroft1710 said:

FlorayG said:

Council tax depends ENTIRELY on actual residency, so you are both entitled to single person discount if there is only one person in each property. If your brother has changed his official address to the new flat them he no longer lives in the one you are in. Council isn't interested in how many people are listed on the tenancy, only how many are listed as living at the address

Not strictly true. If a dwelling is unoccupied but subject to an existing tenancy, the relevant council would want to know who  is named on the tenancy. 

In our case the rented flat would not be unoccupied but only one of the two tenants would be staying in, the other one (my brother) would be moving to the flat we've bought.

Would the council be fine with this? We wouldn't really change the tenancy agreement to remove his name from it.

Thank you

lincroft1710

lb00 said:

lincroft1710 said:

FlorayG said:

Council tax depends ENTIRELY on actual residency, so you are both entitled to single person discount if there is only one person in each property. If your brother has changed his official address to the new flat them he no longer lives in the one you are in. Council isn't interested in how many people are listed on the tenancy, only how many are listed as living at the address

Not strictly true. If a dwelling is unoccupied but subject to an existing tenancy, the relevant council would want to know who  is named on the tenancy. 

In our case the rented flat would not be unoccupied but only one of the two tenants would be staying in, the other one (my brother) would be moving to the flat we've bought.

Would the council be fine with this? We wouldn't really change the tenancy agreement to remove his name from it.

Thank you

@FlorayG's post was slightly inaccurate, hence my correction regarding for when a dwelling is unoccupied. Your circumstances are different and the council should be fine with the arrangement. There would only likely be a problem if you decided to move in with your brother before the tenancy on the old flat ended 

lb00

lincroft1710 said:

lb00 said:

lincroft1710 said:

FlorayG said:

Council tax depends ENTIRELY on actual residency, so you are both entitled to single person discount if there is only one person in each property. If your brother has changed his official address to the new flat them he no longer lives in the one you are in. Council isn't interested in how many people are listed on the tenancy, only how many are listed as living at the address

Not strictly true. If a dwelling is unoccupied but subject to an existing tenancy, the relevant council would want to know who  is named on the tenancy. 

In our case the rented flat would not be unoccupied but only one of the two tenants would be staying in, the other one (my brother) would be moving to the flat we've bought.

Would the council be fine with this? We wouldn't really change the tenancy agreement to remove his name from it.

Thank you

@FlorayG's post was slightly inaccurate, hence my correction regarding for when a dwelling is unoccupied. Your circumstances are different and the council should be fine with the arrangement. There would only likely be a problem if you decided to move in with your brother before the tenancy on the old flat ended 

So given we’ll each be living separately in our own flats, we should both be eligible for the single person discount, right? Thanks again for your help

lincroft1710

lb00 said:

lincroft1710 said:

lb00 said:

lincroft1710 said:

FlorayG said:

Council tax depends ENTIRELY on actual residency, so you are both entitled to single person discount if there is only one person in each property. If your brother has changed his official address to the new flat them he no longer lives in the one you are in. Council isn't interested in how many people are listed on the tenancy, only how many are listed as living at the address

Not strictly true. If a dwelling is unoccupied but subject to an existing tenancy, the relevant council would want to know who  is named on the tenancy. 

In our case the rented flat would not be unoccupied but only one of the two tenants would be staying in, the other one (my brother) would be moving to the flat we've bought.

Would the council be fine with this? We wouldn't really change the tenancy agreement to remove his name from it.

Thank you

@FlorayG's post was slightly inaccurate, hence my correction regarding for when a dwelling is unoccupied. Your circumstances are different and the council should be fine with the arrangement. There would only likely be a problem if you decided to move in with your brother before the tenancy on the old flat ended 

So given we’ll each be living separately in our own flats, we should both be eligible for the single person discount, right? Thanks again for your help

Yes        .

lb00

lincroft1710 said:

lb00 said:

lincroft1710 said:

lb00 said:

lincroft1710 said:

FlorayG said:

Council tax depends ENTIRELY on actual residency, so you are both entitled to single person discount if there is only one person in each property. If your brother has changed his official address to the new flat them he no longer lives in the one you are in. Council isn't interested in how many people are listed on the tenancy, only how many are listed as living at the address

Not strictly true. If a dwelling is unoccupied but subject to an existing tenancy, the relevant council would want to know who  is named on the tenancy. 

In our case the rented flat would not be unoccupied but only one of the two tenants would be staying in, the other one (my brother) would be moving to the flat we've bought.

Would the council be fine with this? We wouldn't really change the tenancy agreement to remove his name from it.

Thank you

@FlorayG's post was slightly inaccurate, hence my correction regarding for when a dwelling is unoccupied. Your circumstances are different and the council should be fine with the arrangement. There would only likely be a problem if you decided to move in with your brother before the tenancy on the old flat ended 

So given we’ll each be living separately in our own flats, we should both be eligible for the single person discount, right? Thanks again for your help

Yes        .

Thank you. However I just called the council and they've said that as long as both of us are on the tenancy agreement of the old flat, we are both liable for council tax. And given we bought the new flat together we are also liable to pay full council tax there.
Tried to tell the lady there will only be one actual occupant in the old flat and one in the new flat but she wouldn't budge so we had to open a new account for the new flat with both our names on it. In her view the only way to disregard one occupant would be to get a new tenancy agreement that only has one name on it.

Not sure what I can do now...

lincroft1710

lb00 said:

lincroft1710 said:

lb00 said:

lincroft1710 said:

lb00 said:

lincroft1710 said:

FlorayG said:

Council tax depends ENTIRELY on actual residency, so you are both entitled to single person discount if there is only one person in each property. If your brother has changed his official address to the new flat them he no longer lives in the one you are in. Council isn't interested in how many people are listed on the tenancy, only how many are listed as living at the address

Not strictly true. If a dwelling is unoccupied but subject to an existing tenancy, the relevant council would want to know who  is named on the tenancy. 

In our case the rented flat would not be unoccupied but only one of the two tenants would be staying in, the other one (my brother) would be moving to the flat we've bought.

Would the council be fine with this? We wouldn't really change the tenancy agreement to remove his name from it.

Thank you

@FlorayG's post was slightly inaccurate, hence my correction regarding for when a dwelling is unoccupied. Your circumstances are different and the council should be fine with the arrangement. There would only likely be a problem if you decided to move in with your brother before the tenancy on the old flat ended 

So given we’ll each be living separately in our own flats, we should both be eligible for the single person discount, right? Thanks again for your help

Yes        .

Thank you. However I just called the council and they've said that as long as both of us are on the tenancy agreement of the old flat, we are both liable for council tax. And given we bought the new flat together we are also liable to pay full council tax there.
Tried to tell the lady there will only be one actual occupant in the old flat and one in the new flat but she wouldn't budge so we had to open a new account for the new flat with both our names on it. In her view the only way to disregard one occupant would be to get a new tenancy agreement that only has one name on it.

Not sure what I can do now...

I think the council are wrong. Try speaking to a Senior Revenues Assistant (or similar). Emphasise there is only one person currently living at each address.


If no joy, tell the council you are going to appeal to the Valuation Tribunal for both addresses regarding the SPD. You will need to appeal in respect of the rented flat, your brother in respect of the owned flat. It is fairly straight forward and simple and won't cost you and the VT is independent of the council.

Kim_13

In regards to the new flat, you are currently at different levels in the hierarchy of liability (one of you is an owner occupier and the other an owner who does not live in it, therefore would only be liable if the flat was empty.) This is set down in the legislation that enables the council to charge council tax so they have no choice but to follow it, and only those people at the highest level applicable to the property may be billed.

The rented flat may be more difficult - I can see that the one not living there would be liable if the resident did not pay but it shouldn't affect the application of SPD. If someone more senior won't budge, you could ask if the LL will issue a new agreement for the remaining period in the one name to make things easier, but they might well want the rent paid in advance (as removing a name from the tenancy agreement would mean that they only had one person to pursue if it were not paid rather than two.)