Ive been hit with a 200% charge because my property was empty for 5 years before i owned it?!!

SILLYMOO

Flugelhorn said:

I think what normally happens is that as soon as you move in as the new owner the clock stops and you revert to "normal council tax" - usually this is when you complete, sounds like the problem in this case was that there was a year when it was still empty 

 Was the property habitable during the year? 

Flugelhorn said:

I think what normally happens is that as soon as you move in as the new owner the clock stops and you revert to "normal council tax" - usually this is when you complete, sounds like the problem in this case was that there was a year when it was still empty 

 Was the property habitable during the year? 

Flugelhorn said:

I think what normally happens is that as soon as you move in as the new owner the clock stops and you revert to "normal council tax" - usually this is when you complete, sounds like the problem in this case was that there was a year when it was still empty 

 Was the property habitable during the year? 

Flugelhorn said:

I think what normally happens is that as soon as you move in as the new owner the clock stops and you revert to "normal council tax" - usually this is when you complete, sounds like the problem in this case was that there was a year when it was still empty 

 Was the property habitable during the year? 

Kim_13 said:

Did no one tell you that the property had been empty for that long before you owned it? It seems like something that ought to be in the information pack. Was it habitable at the point of purchase? Though not sure you can do anything about it now even if it would have been possible to have it removed from the valuation list until the work was completed.

If buying a property with such a charge on it, it makes sense to move in for the time required to reset the timer and reduce the tax to 100% and then start the work afterwards. 

The council should in theory agree a more reasonable payment schedule, but from experience of family members having to pay for an empty property, they (although it was a different council) just ignored countless emails and wouldn’t even engage or even book an appointment in for another date (by phone or otherwise) when one of them felt they had no option left but to turn up at the council. It feels like they know people can’t do anything about poor service and so they just don’t bother.

It would seem fair to me for them to discount the sum on the basis that the OP would have known sooner that the debt was accruing at 200% had they billed in October 2023, and might have acted differently (i.e. moved in while the work was being done and halved the bill) had they known. But on the basis of the above, and the payment schedule so far expected, I’d put the likelihood at 0%.

Kim_13 said:

Did no one tell you that the property had been empty for that long before you owned it? It seems like something that ought to be in the information pack. Was it habitable at the point of purchase? Though not sure you can do anything about it now even if it would have been possible to have it removed from the valuation list until the work was completed.

If buying a property with such a charge on it, it makes sense to move in for the time required to reset the timer and reduce the tax to 100% and then start the work afterwards. 

The council should in theory agree a more reasonable payment schedule, but from experience of family members having to pay for an empty property, they (although it was a different council) just ignored countless emails and wouldn’t even engage or even book an appointment in for another date (by phone or otherwise) when one of them felt they had no option left but to turn up at the council. It feels like they know people can’t do anything about poor service and so they just don’t bother.

It would seem fair to me for them to discount the sum on the basis that the OP would have known sooner that the debt was accruing at 200% had they billed in October 2023, and might have acted differently (i.e. moved in while the work was being done and halved the bill) had they known. But on the basis of the above, and the payment schedule so far expected, I’d put the likelihood at 0%.

Unfortunately I went by there website & thiught it was 100%. No one informed me different or even sent a bill despite my many many emails. They couldn't find the property & then just wouldn't reply to me. The property was & is banded so its not like the records weren't there! Honestly I'm just passed stressed about the whole thing. It just doesn't seem fair. A nearly 3k bill was enough but I knew I was responsible for that but nearly 6k is just pushing me into poverty. 

SILLYMOO

Torry_Quine said:

You're not paying for the previous owner's non occupation. As soon as you become the owner then you are liable for whatever is the charge and in this case that was at double rate. Did it not say on the website about the 200% charge if empty. 
You should have some money put aside as you knew a bill was coming 

The website states 100% charge for unoccupied property with 28 day disregard. It doesn't say if the property is empty prior to your ownership. And yes I do have some money put aside as I thought the charge would be 100% as you can tell from my post.

BarelySentientAI

SILLYMOO said:

Torry_Quine said:

You're not paying for the previous owner's non occupation. As soon as you become the owner then you are liable for whatever is the charge and in this case that was at double rate. Did it not say on the website about the 200% charge if empty. 
You should have some money put aside as you knew a bill was coming 

The website states 100% charge for unoccupied property with 28 day disregard. It doesn't say if the property is empty prior to your ownership. And yes I do have some money put aside as I thought the charge would be 100% as you can tell from my post.

If there are any disregarded times, they count from the day the property became empty.

Changing owner does not reset the clock.

They do not have to make special arrangements to tell you this.  It is up to you to find out what you are liable for.

You have not paid for any time prior to your ownership.  You have not paid anything that the previous owner should have paid.  The council have not double charged for anything.

Kim_13

Torry_Quine said:

You're not paying for the previous owner's non occupation. As soon as you become the owner then you are liable for whatever is the charge and in this case that was at double rate. Did it not say on the website about the 200% charge if empty. 
You should have some money put aside as you knew a bill was coming 

It would be reasonable to expect OP to have the funds for the 100% they knew was coming, but not the 200% as they were not informed of this before the bill landed. Almost certainly the council website details a 200% charge if long term empty, but if they are not told that this applies, how are they supposed to know? The charity clearly knew - they were being billed at 200%, so if it was not in any legal pack or similar, you might explore recovering the premium from them on the basis that it wasn’t disclosed and would have affected how much you were willing to pay for the property. Others may know whether it is legal for a seller to withhold this information if a purchaser does not specifically ask the question. 

In my area the new owner has to live there for something in the region of 6 weeks before the CT due reverts to 100%. 

The bills will say which dates they refer to - if the earliest is the date you bought the property (that’s completion, not exchange) you are not being billed for any time that the previous owner should be liable for. If the earliest date is prior to this, the council have no choice but to correct it given you can prove when you bought it. If you are a single person, have they applied the 25% discount from the date you moved in?

The basis for the premium was to encourage properties to be brought back into use to help the property shortage, but the change of ownership not resetting the clock must have been to prevent people from transferring empty properties into different names to keep CT at the normal rate. Innocent people like the OP pay the price because of those that would inevitably abuse the system otherwise.

Kim_13

BarelySentientAI said:

SILLYMOO said:

Torry_Quine said:

You're not paying for the previous owner's non occupation. As soon as you become the owner then you are liable for whatever is the charge and in this case that was at double rate. Did it not say on the website about the 200% charge if empty. 
You should have some money put aside as you knew a bill was coming 

The website states 100% charge for unoccupied property with 28 day disregard. It doesn't say if the property is empty prior to your ownership. And yes I do have some money put aside as I thought the charge would be 100% as you can tell from my post.

They do not have to make special arrangements to tell you this.  It is up to you to find out what you are liable for.

They don’t, but they should also bill in a timely manner. OP provided their name and address so it’s not as though they had to spend time finding out who should be liable for the property. If the council had billed in a timely manner, OP would have a very small period of 200% to pay for and be able to afford it.

Their failure to locate the property’s record in a timely manner has also cost OP a possible uninhabitable discount, which would have run until 31st March this year if applicable. 

I think you said it was Stafford Council. I’ve just been on the website and the empty property charge is there. Never seen a possible 400% before!

They updated the page in July this year so looks like some recent changes.

BarelySentientAI

Kim_13 said:

BarelySentientAI said:

SILLYMOO said:

Torry_Quine said:

You're not paying for the previous owner's non occupation. As soon as you become the owner then you are liable for whatever is the charge and in this case that was at double rate. Did it not say on the website about the 200% charge if empty. 
You should have some money put aside as you knew a bill was coming 

The website states 100% charge for unoccupied property with 28 day disregard. It doesn't say if the property is empty prior to your ownership. And yes I do have some money put aside as I thought the charge would be 100% as you can tell from my post.

They do not have to make special arrangements to tell you this.  It is up to you to find out what you are liable for.

They don’t, but they should also bill in a timely manner. OP provided their name and address so it’s not as though they had to spend time finding out who should be liable for the property. If the council had billed in a timely manner, OP would have a very small period of 200% to pay for and be able to afford it.

Their failure to locate the property’s record in a timely manner has also cost OP a possible uninhabitable discount, which would have run until 31st March this year if applicable. 
.

Fully agree, but head in the sand ignorance is not a defence.

lincroft1710

Kim_13 said:

BarelySentientAI said:

SILLYMOO said:

Torry_Quine said:

You're not paying for the previous owner's non occupation. As soon as you become the owner then you are liable for whatever is the charge and in this case that was at double rate. Did it not say on the website about the 200% charge if empty. 
You should have some money put aside as you knew a bill was coming 

The website states 100% charge for unoccupied property with 28 day disregard. It doesn't say if the property is empty prior to your ownership. And yes I do have some money put aside as I thought the charge would be 100% as you can tell from my post.

They do not have to make special arrangements to tell you this.  It is up to you to find out what you are liable for.

They don’t, but they should also bill in a timely manner. OP provided their name and address so it’s not as though they had to spend time finding out who should be liable for the property. If the council had billed in a timely manner, OP would have a very small period of 200% to pay for and be able to afford it.

Their failure to locate the property’s record in a timely manner has also cost OP a possible uninhabitable discount, which would have run until 31st March this year if applicable. 

.

The OP said the council couldn't "find the property", so they couldn't immediately identify it and send a bill. It sounds as if it is a rural property and possibly OP didn't give the council enough info. I know from personal experience it can be difficult to identify such properties.


Further, even if the OP was billed earlier, there was no guarantee that there was someone able to occupy it until she was able to move in

Miri_J

SILLYMOO said:

Torry_Quine said:

You're not paying for the previous owner's non occupation. As soon as you become the owner then you are liable for whatever is the charge and in this case that was at double rate. Did it not say on the website about the 200% charge if empty. 
You should have some money put aside as you knew a bill was coming 

The website states 100% charge for unoccupied property with 28 day disregard. It doesn't say if the property is empty prior to your ownership. And yes I do have some money put aside as I thought the charge would be 100% as you can tell from my post.

What an awful situation for you!
 I don't know if this is helpful to you, it's a government website that outlines the law on this. Councils often don't seem to tell us everything on their own websites. Why am I paying an empty homes premium on my council tax? (parliament.uk)
Looks like I might have ducked a nasty surprise on this one having nearly bought a flat in Wales that had been empty for 2 years last year! I wonder if they would have declared anything there?
It may be worth going back to your conveyancer / solicitor and asking whether there is anything you can do about this as it wasn't declared. Someone should have known.