Worried Daughter- Missed Job off application form

Topadviser

My daughter had 24 hours to fill in an application form and send to the Employer (Local Government) and was then interviewed 48 hours later and got the job.
The Contract was provided to her a few days after her starting the job and she noticed that the holiday entitlement should be more as she had worked for Local Government for over 5 years giving her an extra 5 days holiday.
When she questioned this she was informed it was correct based on the dates of employment that they had. She then realised that she had missed a 5 month job off the application with another Local Government. This was not intentional and it was an honest mistake. 
Both jobs required a DBS which she has, but at the time (approx 2 months ago) the Manager stated it was serious due to 'safe-guarding', but nothing more came of it....until now.
My daughter has now received a 'formal' letter to attend a meeting to discuss why she missed this off her application and has been advised she can bring a Union Rep or work colleague to the meeting....obviously she is extremely upset and fears that she will lose her job even though she mentioned it to them and they had not discovered this job, as said, an honest mistake.
My daughter suffers from anxiety and stress and was in a very bad place when she rang me to say that the letter had arrived via email whilst she was on holiday last week.

Has any one ever had an experience like this...can they sack her (this is what she is really worried about) as she is still in her probationary period?

Voyager2002

They can sack her for anything or nothing if they wish to do so, but that would be stupid of them.

They obviously need to consider the possibility that she failed to declare this job because she did something wrong in it, and references from that employer would have given cause for concern. So long as they can contact the previous employer and confirm that nothing was seriously wrong, it would be intelligent for them to continue her employment.

Topadviser

Voyager2002 said:

They can sack her for anything or nothing if they wish to do so, but that would be stupid of them.

They obviously need to consider the possibility that she failed to declare this job because she did something wrong in it, and references from that employer would have given cause for concern. So long as they can contact the previous employer and confirm that nothing was seriously wrong, it would be intelligent for them to continue her employment.

Thanks,
My hope is that as it is Local Government that they are just 'ticking boxes' to show that they have investigated it as the person who was running the 'service' she is employed for knew my daughter from previous involvement in cases and if there was an issue with 'safe-guarding' they would have suspended her immediately on her letting them know about the job.......as I said, her mental health is not good and this has now caused her to become very anxious.

Penguin_

The bit about bringing a union rep or colleague is standard practice. 

Best thing she can be is 100% honest.

Topadviser

Penguin_ said:

The bit about bringing a union rep or colleague is standard practice. 

Best thing she can be is 100% honest.

Cheers, yes I have told her that, but it doesn't quash her concerns.

She has always been 100% honest with them so hopefully this will be ok, but as mentioned above, I just wondered if anyone else has been in this position before.

Marcon

Topadviser said:

Penguin_ said:

The bit about bringing a union rep or colleague is standard practice. 

Best thing she can be is 100% honest.

Cheers, yes I have told her that, but it doesn't quash her concerns.

She has always been 100% honest with them so hopefully this will be ok, but as mentioned above, I just wondered if anyone else has been in this position before.

Anyone would be anxious about all this, especially someone who has any sort of mental health issues, and it's a pity it has been dragged out rather than dealt with promptly when the issue first became apparent. 

There are any number of questions on MSE, covering various scenarios, and asking whether '...anyone else has been in this position before'. In most cases the answer is yes, plenty of people - but it rarely helps the person asking the question, because the facts and people involved are almost invariably different in each case.

A genuine mistake by someone who is fundamentally honest and has the references to back that up, and has already shown her worth to her newest employer, isn't going to be high on the list of candidates for the chop. Compare and contrast with the very high %age of those who admit they out and out lied...wholly different situation, likely to be a different outcome.

Topadviser said:

My daughter had 24 hours to fill in an application form and send to the Employer (Local Government) and was then interviewed 48 hours later and got the job.
The Contract was provided to her a few days after her starting the job and she noticed that the holiday entitlement should be more as she had worked for Local Government for over 5 years giving her an extra 5 days holiday.
When she questioned this she was informed it was correct based on the dates of employment that they had. She then realised that she had missed a 5 month job off the application with another Local Government. This was not intentional and it was an honest mistake. 

If she had 24 hours to fill in an application form, that's actually plenty of time to complete a form with factual information, especially for someone in a younger age group without an extensive work history to itemise. It's rare for local government to have anything like such a short window, so IF she simply ran things up and dallied about submitting the application, I suggest she doesn't dwell on the point!

What does work in her favour is the fact she raised the query about holiday. If there was anything 'amiss' in respect of her departure from the 5-month job she'd surely have kept quiet about it, not cheerfully flagged it?


From all you've said, I'd be astonished if she lost her job - but I suspect the poor girl is talking herself into a downward spiral and the only way to get out of it will be confirmation that the meeting will result in nothing more than a rap over the knuckles, if that. I hope all goes well for her.

Topadviser

Marcon said:

Topadviser said:

Penguin_ said:

The bit about bringing a union rep or colleague is standard practice. 

Best thing she can be is 100% honest.

Cheers, yes I have told her that, but it doesn't quash her concerns.

She has always been 100% honest with them so hopefully this will be ok, but as mentioned above, I just wondered if anyone else has been in this position before.

Anyone would be anxious about all this, especially someone who has any sort of mental health issues, and it's a pity it has been dragged out rather than dealt with promptly when the issue first became apparent. 

There are any number of questions on MSE, covering various scenarios, and asking whether '...anyone else has been in this position before'. In most cases the answer is yes, plenty of people - but it rarely helps the person asking the question, because the facts and people involved are almost invariably different in each case.

A genuine mistake by someone who is fundamentally honest and has the references to back that up, and has already shown her worth to her newest employer, isn't going to be high on the list of candidates for the chop. Compare and contrast with the very high %age of those who admit they out and out lied...wholly different situation, likely to be a different outcome.

Topadviser said:

My daughter had 24 hours to fill in an application form and send to the Employer (Local Government) and was then interviewed 48 hours later and got the job.
The Contract was provided to her a few days after her starting the job and she noticed that the holiday entitlement should be more as she had worked for Local Government for over 5 years giving her an extra 5 days holiday.
When she questioned this she was informed it was correct based on the dates of employment that they had. She then realised that she had missed a 5 month job off the application with another Local Government. This was not intentional and it was an honest mistake. 

If she had 24 hours to fill in an application form, that's actually plenty of time to complete a form with factual information, especially for someone in a younger age group without an extensive work history to itemise. It's rare for local government to have anything like such a short window, so IF she simply ran things up and dallied about submitting the application, I suggest she doesn't dwell on the point!

What does work in her favour is the fact she raised the query about holiday. If there was anything 'amiss' in respect of her departure from the 5-month job she'd surely have kept quiet about it, not cheerfully flagged it?


From all you've said, I'd be astonished if she lost her job - but I suspect the poor girl is talking herself into a downward spiral and the only way to get out of it will be confirmation that the meeting will result in nothing more than a rap over the knuckles, if that. I hope all goes well for her.

Thanks for the reply. Yes it is unusual for such a short window for Local Government, however the application had shut already (the advert stated 3 months earlier and had not been updated) and it was only due to the fact that my daughter new the 'head person' that she enquired if the position had been filled and he gave her less than 24 hours to complete the form as he said that he knew her and was happy for an application form to be completed but needed it next day.

Her friend has since stated that the 'probationary' period cannot be used as this is working for the same Local Government and therefore it is classed as continuous employment within their policy. Also, she has stated that 'if anything' this would be 'misconduct' and not a 'gross misconduct' as she did not intentionally tell a 'lie'.

Still, no matter what we say my daughter is very upset and having a bit of a breakdown which is quite upsetting.

TELLIT01

She just needs to be honest and say she rushed because it was close to the closing date and simply missed the job off in error.  As long as she wasn't sacked or facing an disciplinary process at that job I don't see why there should be an issue.

Undervalued

Topadviser said:

Marcon said:

Topadviser said:

Penguin_ said:

The bit about bringing a union rep or colleague is standard practice. 

Best thing she can be is 100% honest.

Cheers, yes I have told her that, but it doesn't quash her concerns.

She has always been 100% honest with them so hopefully this will be ok, but as mentioned above, I just wondered if anyone else has been in this position before.

Anyone would be anxious about all this, especially someone who has any sort of mental health issues, and it's a pity it has been dragged out rather than dealt with promptly when the issue first became apparent. 

There are any number of questions on MSE, covering various scenarios, and asking whether '...anyone else has been in this position before'. In most cases the answer is yes, plenty of people - but it rarely helps the person asking the question, because the facts and people involved are almost invariably different in each case.

A genuine mistake by someone who is fundamentally honest and has the references to back that up, and has already shown her worth to her newest employer, isn't going to be high on the list of candidates for the chop. Compare and contrast with the very high %age of those who admit they out and out lied...wholly different situation, likely to be a different outcome.

Topadviser said:

My daughter had 24 hours to fill in an application form and send to the Employer (Local Government) and was then interviewed 48 hours later and got the job.
The Contract was provided to her a few days after her starting the job and she noticed that the holiday entitlement should be more as she had worked for Local Government for over 5 years giving her an extra 5 days holiday.
When she questioned this she was informed it was correct based on the dates of employment that they had. She then realised that she had missed a 5 month job off the application with another Local Government. This was not intentional and it was an honest mistake. 

If she had 24 hours to fill in an application form, that's actually plenty of time to complete a form with factual information, especially for someone in a younger age group without an extensive work history to itemise. It's rare for local government to have anything like such a short window, so IF she simply ran things up and dallied about submitting the application, I suggest she doesn't dwell on the point!

What does work in her favour is the fact she raised the query about holiday. If there was anything 'amiss' in respect of her departure from the 5-month job she'd surely have kept quiet about it, not cheerfully flagged it?


From all you've said, I'd be astonished if she lost her job - but I suspect the poor girl is talking herself into a downward spiral and the only way to get out of it will be confirmation that the meeting will result in nothing more than a rap over the knuckles, if that. I hope all goes well for her.

Thanks for the reply. Yes it is unusual for such a short window for Local Government, however the application had shut already (the advert stated 3 months earlier and had not been updated) and it was only due to the fact that my daughter new the 'head person' that she enquired if the position had been filled and he gave her less than 24 hours to complete the form as he said that he knew her and was happy for an application form to be completed but needed it next day.

Her friend has since stated that the 'probationary' period cannot be used as this is working for the same Local Government and therefore it is classed as continuous employment within their policy. Also, she has stated that 'if anything' this would be 'misconduct' and not a 'gross misconduct' as she did not intentionally tell a 'lie'.

Still, no matter what we say my daughter is very upset and having a bit of a breakdown which is quite upsetting.

All she can do is be completely honest about what has happened and apologise profusely.

Like most other posters, I would think it most unlikely that she will be dismissed. A large employer like this will have its own policies and procedures which they will no doubt follow. 

Legally she could be dismissed and with less than two years service she would have no legal comeback. Based on what you have said here I would be amazed if that were to happen but nobody can give you a guarantee I'm afraid.

Savvy_Sue

If she is in a union, she should immediately contact them to get a rep in place to attend with her. 

If she's not, I suggest she joins forthwith, because for someone who worries about things it can be very reassuring to be able to say "I shall have to consult my union about this". 

And also if she's not, she should identify a suitable colleague to attend with her, and work through what it is she wants to say. Generally the colleague can't speak on her behalf, but can take notes, prompt her, ask for a break if it's needed. 

Topadviser

So I thought I would update this.
My daughter had a Teams Meeting with 3 'Managers' and basically although my Daughter is employed by the Local Government she works for part of a school and it is their policy that is used for Code of Conduct etc.
Meeting was held and the Head Teacher (HT) stated that they wanted to hear my daughters side as to why the job was omitted as it 'may' have warranted more questions and then later in the meeting she said she would have 'definitely' asked more questions.
The HT then went onto state that they are classing this under the code of conduct 'falsifying' documents and therefore 'Gross Misconduct' but stated that as she does not have the power to make a decision as it is the 'Governors' that make the final decision and she does not have the power to dismiss!
Obviously my daughter has argued this is grossly unfair as this was a genuine mistake and that she informed them of the issue.
She now has to wait 7 days for a Face to Face formal meeting with 5 people at the school even though she asked for it to be done as soon as possible, but they said they have to follow procedures (which they haven't done and used the excuse of holidays!!).
So it looks like this will be a 'dismissal' but obviously my daughter will fight this even though she does not wish to work there any more as they as so unprofessional.
The funny thing is, my daughter asked about what she should do between now and next week with regards to work and they have told her to continue as normal.
Not sure whether my daughter should argue the point before the meeting and send a further statement (she sent a statement before the meeting due to stress and anxiety) or wait and see what is said, however my guess is that if the HT is classing this as Gross Misconduct then the Governor will do the same.