Leaving job and taking holiday

FlorayG

Asking for a friend; she was offered a different job in April but has waited until now for her replacement visa which enables her to take the job. She hates her current job, the office is full of bullies, but she has not yet given notice because of needing to confirm the visa ( which came through yesterday). She hasn't taken any holiday and has accrued 20 days
She wants to start her new job ASAP. Where does she stand legally if she just quits, say, tomorrow and starts the new job? She asked about holiday and they said she can't take any before October, holidays are fully booked. She really doesn't want to work another month for notice and was hoping to take the 20 days in her last month  and basically be on holiday and not work but can they refuse this?

elsien

They can refuse it, yes. 

Do they know she is leaving or do they think she is just asking for holiday?

FlorayG

elsien said:

They can refuse it, yes. 

Do they know she is leaving or do they think she is just asking for holiday?

Unofficially they know because they had to provide references and details for the Home Office, but she hasn't given official notice

Andy_L

They can give her a reference that says she left without notice

Theoretically they can sue her for any costs they incur as a result of her breech of contact. eg the extra increased cost of employing a temp at short notice to cover for her absence.

LinLui

If she is dependant upon visas, then it would be extremely unwise to simply walk out without giving notice. Just because the new job have now confirmed her visa does not mean the existing employer can't screw with her, so she needs to leave on good terms. She needs to hand in her notice properly giving her one months notice AND noting that she has XX days leave accrued which she needs to either take or be paid for when she leaves. If they are all that bad they may simply tell her to take her leave now to avoid having to pay for it. 

Just a thought, but is she entirely sure that she has 20 days leave available? Just because she hasn't taken holiday doesn't mean that holiday can now be taken - depending on her holiday year, untaken holiday may be lost. And 20 days is quite a lot to have accrued.

FlorayG

LinLui said:

 

Just a thought, but is she entirely sure that she has 20 days leave available? Just because she hasn't taken holiday doesn't mean that holiday can now be taken - depending on her holiday year, untaken holiday may be lost. And 20 days is quite a lot to have accrued.

She's here to work. She doesn't see the point of taking holiday, so yes, she has that much accrued 

elsien

FlorayG said:

LinLui said:

 

Just a thought, but is she entirely sure that she has 20 days leave available? Just because she hasn't taken holiday doesn't mean that holiday can now be taken - depending on her holiday year, untaken holiday may be lost. And 20 days is quite a lot to have accrued.

She's here to work. She doesn't see the point of taking holiday, so yes, she has that much accrued 

In which case she needs to be very careful about not burning out. People who are here to work still  need downtime - something I used to pull my employees up on at times. If annual leave is paid and she is not losing out financially by taking it, can't see what she has to lose. 

FlorayG

Well yes but that's her affair and not the question ( another point against her employer, they've never queried her having no time off)

Undervalued

FlorayG said:

Well yes but that's her affair and not the question ( another point against her employer, they've never queried her having no time off)

Nothing says they have to!

The fact remains (as said by others above) that the employer could insist on her working her full notice and then paying her for untaken holiday after she leaves. That is their legal right, but that is not say say they will do that. 

Some employers want employees who resign out the door as quickly as possible, even to the point of escorting them off the premises and paying them in lieu of notice! Most are somewhere in the middle.

LinLui

FlorayG said:

LinLui said:

 

Just a thought, but is she entirely sure that she has 20 days leave available? Just because she hasn't taken holiday doesn't mean that holiday can now be taken - depending on her holiday year, untaken holiday may be lost. And 20 days is quite a lot to have accrued.

She's here to work. She doesn't see the point of taking holiday, so yes, she has that much accrued 

That's fine - but as I said, the fact that she hasn't taken holiday does not mean that she still has that holiday left to take. The UK operates a "take it or lose it" system, and if she has accrued leave in a previous holiday year (which we cannot tell - holiday years can be determined in different ways) then there is no right to carry it over and it is lost unless she has an agreement to that effect. So despite what you have said it actually "is" the question. Because you state that she has 20 days leave accrued taht she would like to take but you cannot tell us that she actually has 20 days that she is entitled to take, because you don't know the answer to that. 

Holiday years may run April - March (very common), run over the calendar year January to December (quite common), start on the date employment begins (also common), start at any other date the employer determines (not quite so common but it happens) - or basically any way the employer wants to decide. So, as an example, if her holiday year runs from April to March, and she has 28 days (including bank holidays), at the end of August she will have accrued 11.66 days holiday, and if she has taken bank holidays then there were two in May and there will be another at the end of August - leaving only 8.66 days accrued, because anything before 1st April is almost certainly lost by now. Choosing not to work your holidays does not mean you get to keep them. 

Therefore my point is very relevant, because if she has lost some of those days, then she couldn't take the whole notice period as leave anyway. 

Hoenir

FlorayG said:

Well yes but that's her affair and not the question ( another point against her employer, they've never queried her having no time off)

Remember a discussion once with a very indignant staff member that had accrued holiday then expected to be paid for it rather than taking it. Being told they couldn't didn't go to well. Needlessly to say they subsequently left having burnt their own bridges.