Negotiation for settlement to leave

nedwina2020

Hello, 
I am seeking advice from those who’d hopefully be able to provide some insight and/or advice. 

I have been with my current employer for over ten years and for the last two years at least,I have been subjected to bullying and harrasment from my ex and his partner (context,we all work together in the same area). 

Our previous manager spent the last two years before he left last month sweeping it all under the carpet until a significant incident that happened,followed up with a grievance on my part and it was automatically sent to HR to deal with. He failed to inform the HSE about this incident and one of us could have been killed. HR offered mediation and I said no because I didn’t want to be in the same room and it wouldn’t be beneficial. 

For the last two years,I’ve been the subject of malicious rumours,bullied,discriminated against because of my gender,lost out on a promotion as I’m a ‘problem’ and had my safety compromised numerous times and I’m banging my head against a brick wall. 

Our new managers put us through mediation last month as the problems continued and I was up to four grievances by then. I subsequently went off sick because of the stress. Rules were set,agreed to and then broken by my ex. I informed work of this with witnesses and proof only to be told people gossip and stir things up,despite very specific information from that meeting being common knowledge. I was also told to go on antidepressants by my boss (been there,done that and worked hard to get off them and I’ll be undoing four years of hard work). Antidepressants will not make the bullying stop. My ex also obtained my home address potentially from a GDPR breach at work (I moved after we split,I never gave any colleagues my address).

I am at the point I want to leave because I feel the only way this will ever stop is for me to leave my job and the area I live. But can’t just leave as I’ll have no income. If I leave and go for a settlement,can I then go and work for a subsidiary company? Or am I effectively blacklisted by that parent company? 

I really don’t know what do to or where to turn. Thank you for reading if you got this far,it is appreciated! 

Undervalued

nedwina2020 said:

Hello, 
I am seeking advice from those who’d hopefully be able to provide some insight and/or advice. 

I have been with my current employer for over ten years and for the last two years at least,I have been subjected to bullying and harrasment from my ex and his partner (context,we all work together in the same area). 

Our previous manager spent the last two years before he left last month sweeping it all under the carpet until a significant incident that happened,followed up with a grievance on my part and it was automatically sent to HR to deal with. He failed to inform the HSE about this incident and one of us could have been killed. HR offered mediation and I said no because I didn’t want to be in the same room and it wouldn’t be beneficial. 

For the last two years,I’ve been the subject of malicious rumours,bullied,discriminated against because of my gender,lost out on a promotion as I’m a ‘problem’ and had my safety compromised numerous times and I’m banging my head against a brick wall. 

Our new managers put us through mediation last month as the problems continued and I was up to four grievances by then. I subsequently went off sick because of the stress. Rules were set,agreed to and then broken by my ex. I informed work of this with witnesses and proof only to be told people gossip and stir things up,despite very specific information from that meeting being common knowledge. I was also told to go on antidepressants by my boss (been there,done that and worked hard to get off them and I’ll be undoing four years of hard work). Antidepressants will not make the bullying stop. My ex also obtained my home address potentially from a GDPR breach at work (I moved after we split,I never gave any colleagues my address).

I am at the point I want to leave because I feel the only way this will ever stop is for me to leave my job and the area I live. But can’t just leave as I’ll have no income. If I leave and go for a settlement,can I then go and work for a subsidiary company? Or am I effectively blacklisted by that parent company? 

I really don’t know what do to or where to turn. Thank you for reading if you got this far,it is appreciated! 

That depends entirely on the terms of any settlement you are able to agree.

You really need to get proper legal advice about this (and no, ACAS or "advice" on this forum are not substitutes).

Are you a member of a union and / or do you have any legal expenses insurance? It can often form part of your house insurance and sometimes people don't realise they may be covered.

Savvy_Sue

If it's a large company, with subsidiaries, I don't see how anyone here can tell you whether you'd be able to apply for other jobs within that company. 

And I am not sure what you mean by 'leave and go for a settlement': if you're thinking of claiming constructive dismissal via an Employment Tribunal, unless you have very good support from a Trade Union or Employment Solicitor, then it's likely to be a very difficult process with an uncertain outcome. 

If you're in a Trade Union, get their support. 

But there is nothing to stop you looking for jobs elsewhere in the country, and relocating once you have one. 

Brie

Wow.  Nasty. 

Do you have a union at work?  One that you could join if you aren't in it already?  Might be an industry wide one if not one specifically at your work.  Or an industry organisation that could help.

It sounds from what you say about the safety issues that it's not a desk job, possibly building/transport or something.  So likely to have a union.  In any case you need someone on your side.

Meanwhile - do you have an itemised list of issues?  I find it best to have things in date order to show things in context of actions that have happened and meetings that have taken place.  You could go to HR with this by yourself (but better with an advocate of some sort) and say these are the things that have happened and that I will be taking to a tribunal if I am forced out of my job.  Remind them that you are the injured party, not the culprit and that you should not be punished for someone else's actions that they, HR, should have helped to prevent.  

Should it come to the point of you leaving and trying to get a settlement (which frankly may take some time) I think that some information about this might already have been shared with related companies.  No one is going to blacklist you but they might damn you with faint praise that will mean you continue to feel the effects of this for some time.  You shouldn't have to run away but sometimes that is the best thing to do for your own peace of mind.  

I truly hope a union or similar can help you through this.

Wonka_2

Savvy_Sue said:

And I am not sure what you mean by 'leave and go for a settlement': if you're thinking of claiming constructive dismissal via an Employment Tribunal, unless you have very good support from a Trade Union or Employment Solicitor, then it's likely to be a very difficult process with an uncertain outcome. 

As above - unless there's some view from your employer that they have committed some wrongdoing which may leave them open to future tribunal action there's no reason for them to offer a settlement.

As others have suggested you can use union representation/suggestions to document the incidents and request that they are dealt with in a legally appropriate way but if it ends up as a 'he said/she said' scenario then there may not be the positive outcome you're looking for.

If circumstances allow and the company is of such size that a transfer to a subsidiary is possible then a proactive approach to HR asking about this may generate a more positive response than continued grievances.

Should, at some point in the future, a settlement be offered then it's down to negotiation of the terms of this but I can't understand a situation where a company would pay out and then allow the leaver to be re-hired - it would be in all interests (continuity of service etc) to make the transfer at that time. Also be aware of tax liabilities in returning to same company depending on the wording of the agreement.

nedwina2020

Thank you for the replies so far,much appreciated

It’s a very large transportation company,hence the safety concerns. 

I should have clarified that in the mediation recently,HR and manager admitted that incidents prior to the old manager leaving hadn’t been investigated properly and I now have this in the minutes sent to me.

In terms of leaving one subsidiary and going to another,it’s not a transfer option,I have to apply for a job there the same as anyone else. Everyone within that parent company that’s moved to my company for example,have had to go through the same application process as anyone else as if they are an outsider. They are run completely separately but have the same parent company. In terms of my original post,by transfer I meant to another depot within the same company.  

In regards to the union,when this initially happened,it was difficult to get a rep because where they know me and my ex,they didn’t want to ‘take sides’. As a former rep of that union,I know that’s not how it works or how it should be. You provide support to your members. I don’t trust my local rep and trying to find another rep to help is taking time with no luck so far.

LinLui

You phone your union regional office,  and ask for representation. They are required to provide a rep.

In terms of working for a subsidiary, nobody could possibly answer that. If they won't employ you,  they won't. And they won't tell you why. Not the truth anyway. 

I'm not going to repeat the good advice you have already had,  but I'm going to ask a very clear question, and one that hasn't been answered. What is your evidence and do you have witnesses willing to testify (against their own employer,  probably). Because "not having investigated as well as they ought" isn't unlawful, it isn't a case,  and it definitely isn't evidence. That might seem harsh, but it's the bludgeon the union need to force the employer into action. And I have seen too many bullying cases fall by the wayside for lack of evidence.

Frankly, if the employer were minded to settle,  they'd have offered it already to get rid of the problem. They have clearly indicated that they will do nothing. Four grievances, and nothing. Its just gossip and they can't stop it (which is partly true - it's horrible being the subject of it,  but pinning down evidence of who starts it is harder than you'd think) - they'll do nothing. You've had two years of nothing. What have you got to fight back with? You require cold hard evidence that cannot be easily disputed.

And if you don't have that,  for the sake of your sanity,  just go and get another job as soon as you can. The journey from where you are now to a tribunal will not be any easier,  and probably just as long. And while that is ongoing you probably can't expect any subsidiary to not know about it and not wish to employ you. 

So back to that first line. Demand union involvement from higher levels. If they can't see the evidence in your case, then you will struggle to get anything like what I suspect you are thinking about as a settlement. Bearing in mind that even tribunal awards are very much less than people believe. 

By the way,  blacklisting is illegal and no companies do that. And if you believe that I have a used car,  one old lady owner,  250 miles,  to sell you...

Out of interest, when you speak of a settlement,  what do you think you are looking for in financial terms? If you can tell us that we can at least advise on what we think the chances are. 

Marcon

LinLui said:

And if you don't have that,  for the sake of your sanity,  just go and get another job as soon as you can. 

Out of interest, when you speak of a settlement,  what do you think you are looking for in financial terms? If you can tell us that we can at least advise on what we think the chances are. 

Best advice you'll get.

Nobody here can possibly advise on the 'chances' of any settlement of any amount - or at least they can, and doubtless some will try, but in the absence of pretty much any relevant information, never mind all of it, it's pointless guesswork.

penners324

I'd write a very strongly worded email about their behaviour and leave.

Life is too short to go through stuff like that at work

nedwina2020

LinLui said:

I'm not going to repeat the good advice you have already had,  but I'm going to ask a very clear question, and one that hasn't been answered. What is your evidence and do you have witnesses willing to testify (against their own employer,  probably). Because "not having investigated as well as they ought" isn't unlawful, it isn't a case,  and it definitely isn't evidence. That might seem harsh, but it's the bludgeon the union need to force the employer into action. And I have seen too many bullying cases fall by the wayside for lack of evidence.

Evidence - I have a video of verbal abuse and the safety incident involving my ex. This was sent to the on call manager who intended to suspend my ex but the case was swiftly taken over by our then manager and he didn’t do anything because he passed it to HR. I have abusive messages from his work phone to mine on both texts and WhatsApp. These were sent to management and HR. I have messages where he admitted to using the work systems to find out exactly where I was and when I’d finish work so he could wait for me and have a word. Again,presented to management and nothing was done. 

Out of interest, when you speak of a settlement,  what do you think you are looking for in financial terms? If you can tell us that we can at least advise on what we think the chances are. 

Not sure,I’ve had three years of this and also missed out on a promotion - most experienced and qualified (which was a requirement for the job) and it went to someone with a lot less services and unqualified because management didn’t want any problems. 

I’ve filed in some replies to the above,it’s not just bullying and gossip. It’s full on harrasment and bullying with evidence. It’s hard to get a job in my grade and salary so I can’t just walk out of one job and into another due to financial commitments. 

Edit to add - the company admitted they had failed to investigate the incidents properly. I have proof they said this. I’m actively looking for a new job even though I feel I’m being forced to leave.

LightFlare

nedwina2020 said:

Hello, 
I am seeking advice from those who’d hopefully be able to provide some insight and/or advice. 

I have been with my current employer for over ten years and for the last two years at least,I have been subjected to bullying and harrasment from my ex and his partner (context,we all work together in the same area). 

Our previous manager spent the last two years before he left last month sweeping it all under the carpet until a significant incident that happened,followed up with a grievance on my part and it was automatically sent to HR to deal with. He failed to inform the HSE about this incident and one of us could have been killed. HR offered mediation and I said no because I didn’t want to be in the same room and it wouldn’t be beneficial. 

For the last two years,I’ve been the subject of malicious rumours,bullied,discriminated against because of my gender,lost out on a promotion as I’m a ‘problem’ and had my safety compromised numerous times and I’m banging my head against a brick wall. 

Our new managers put us through mediation last month as the problems continued and I was up to four grievances by then. I subsequently went off sick because of the stress. Rules were set,agreed to and then broken by my ex. I informed work of this with witnesses and proof only to be told people gossip and stir things up,despite very specific information from that meeting being common knowledge. I was also told to go on antidepressants by my boss (been there,done that and worked hard to get off them and I’ll be undoing four years of hard work). Antidepressants will not make the bullying stop. My ex also obtained my home address potentially from a GDPR breach at work (I moved after we split,I never gave any colleagues my address).

I am at the point I want to leave because I feel the only way this will ever stop is for me to leave my job and the area I live. But can’t just leave as I’ll have no income. If I leave and go for a settlement,can I then go and work for a subsidiary company? Or am I effectively blacklisted by that parent company? 

I really don’t know what do to or where to turn. Thank you for reading if you got this far,it is appreciated! 

Not usually wise to not engage and allow companies/employers to follow their policies and procedures - I understand your reasons, but you have to play the "game"

Agree with most of the comments - you need union or professional support