HMRC contradict MSE - UK Pension - Voluntary NIC payments

Bordo

MSE has published a guide on this topic.
You'll find it via the menu under Banking & Savings, then Pensions & Investing.

I read it and thought....OK, I have gaps in my NIC record so it seems that I can still pay to
close them for years as far back as 2006.
So....I wrote to HMRC asking for confirmation of the years I can pay for prior to the next Apr deadline.. 
Surprise....surprise.....they say as I reached retirement age in 20-21....the last year I can make voluntary contributions for is 20-21. No explanation provided.

I'm 69 and am getting ready to claim my pension. I live in France, having left the UK a decade ago. My career ended when I emigrated and I became a housewife but I don't see any written
rule that I can't now make voluntary NICS payments per the extended limits.

I'm left wondering if what Martin has written is really true.....or if HMRC have some 'small
print' rules to invalidate claims that he is not aware of, or has not mentioned.

Any comments gratefully received..................

Mark_d

You reached state pension age in 20-21.  You can't pay NI for years after 20-21 because no-one pays NI after state pension age

p00hsticks

/initially you shouldn't be speaking to HMRC - they can only tell you what years are available to pay (in your case any years with gaps between 2006 and up to the tax year before you reached state pension age (SPA). 

What you first need to know is whether filling in any gaps will increase your state pension amount - and that's something for the Pension Service (part of DWP) to answer,  not HMRC. 

Unfortunately the process is more convoluted once you have past SPA, as I think they are not able to give you answers over the phone but will pass your case to a back office who will (eventually) communicate with you in writing. I haven't looked at MSE's guide recently, but it is probably more directed at people who are still under SPA.

Did you by any chance get a state pension forecast prior to reaching SPA ? If so, and you post the details here, people may be able to tell you what years (if any) would improve your state pension amount. 

edit: Is this the guide you are referring to ?
How to buy voluntary national insurance contributions (moneysavingexpert.com)

If so, the last part of the guide says...

If you are already state pension age, contact the Pension Service on 0800 731 0469. 

Both the Future Pension Centre or the Pension Service are open between 8am and 6pm, Monday to Friday, and provide specific information about your current national insurance record. They'll tell you whether doing so will actually result in any increase to your (eventual) state pension. It is possible to pay to plug a gap and see no gain, which is why this step is so important.

pinnks

If you are past pension age, then the last year you can pay is the tax year that end before the tax year in which you reached pension age.  So, if you reached pension age in 2021/22, so 69 in 2024/25, the final year you can pay voluntarily is 2020/21.  This has nothing to do with living abroad.

Is there any particular reason why you have deferred claiming your pension?  All history now but you would appear to have foregone 2+ years' of pension for a small increase ging forward... 

Bordo

Thanks for your feedback pinnks. 
What logic or rule are you using to conclude that 20-21 is the final year I can pay for ? This is what I do not
understand. It was the same from HMRC PT Operations but also not explained...just stated.

I'm thinking it is a COMPUTER SAYS NO response being churned out by PT Ops.

My NIC record on the GOV.UK website indicates I have gaps for 2006-2007 thru 2011-2012 that I can 
make payments for but if it is so difficult to proceed then yes, I will just go ahead and claim my pension 'as is' .

Martins NI explainer
    moneysavingexpert.com/savings/voluntary-national-insurance-contributions/
mentions 45-72 year olds.......but clearly HMRC have small print rules that make it
wishful think for persons over retirement age now applying for their pension......and I think maybe this
should be reflected in his explainer. 
Mon Dieu !

Hoenir

Bordo said:

I'm thinking it is a COMPUTER SAYS NO response being churned out by PT Ops.

As asked previously. Have you obtained a State Pension Forecast? 

You have gaps. But you also also paid NIC over many years.  

pinnks

Bordo said:

Thanks for your feedback pinnks. 
What logic or rule are you using to conclude that 20-21 is the final year I can pay for ? This is what I do not
understand. It was the same from HMRC PT Operations but also not explained...just stated.

I'm thinking it is a COMPUTER SAYS NO response being churned out by PT Ops.

My NIC record on the GOV.UK website indicates I have gaps for 2006-2007 thru 2011-2012 that I can 
make payments for but if it is so difficult to proceed then yes, I will just go ahead and claim my pension 'as is' .

Martins NI explainer
    moneysavingexpert.com/savings/voluntary-national-insurance-contributions/
mentions 45-72 year olds.......but clearly HMRC have small print rules that make it
wishful think for persons over retirement age now applying for their pension......and I think maybe this
should be reflected in his explainer. 
Mon Dieu !

The law.  I cannot recall the actual Act/Regulations Section/Paragraph but you can only pay NI over your working life, which is defined as the tax year in which you turn 16 until the tax year that ends before you reach pension age.  

You mention years 2006/07 to 2011/12.  Those are still payable, and, so far as I am aware, having reached pension age has no bearing on that and normal time limits apply.  However, you would need to ascertain from DWP Future Pension Centre whether paying any, or all, of those years would impact your pension.

Do you already have more than 30 years up to and including 2015/16?  Do you have more than 35 years to that date?  Were you paying into a contracted out pension scheme through work?  All of these factors may mean that paying years 2015/16 or earlier will not increase your pension.

jem16

Bordo said:

Martins NI explainer
    moneysavingexpert.com/savings/voluntary-national-insurance-contributions/
mentions 45-72 year olds.......but clearly HMRC have small print rules that make it
wishful think for persons over retirement age now applying for their pension......and I think maybe this
should be reflected in his explainer. 
Mon Dieu !

I think you are perhaps a little confused by what Martin has said and what pinnks is trying to explain to you.

There is nothing to prevent those who have already reached state pension age from paying voluntary contributions for years that are missing on their NI Record. Normally you can go back 6 years but at the moment you’re allowed to go back to 2006.

HMRC has told you that the final year you can pay for is 2020/21. This is because nobody pays NI once they reach SPA. It’s written into the law. If you have gaps before this then you can most certainly pay for them. However paying for them may or may not improve your pension and that will depend on your own circumstances. 

If you answer some o the questions being asked of you then you might get a clearer picture of what would benefit you. 

Bordo

A big thanks to poohsticks, pinnks and jem16......I sense that each of you are knowledgeable on this topic and I realise have been missing the point......am eating a big humble pie !

The comment by pinnks confirms my understanding and matches Martins Explainer:
........years 2006/07 to 2011/12.  Those are still payable, and, so far as I am aware, having reached pension age has no bearing on that and normal time limits apply.

Some more details.......I want to fill gaps in my NI record for 2006-2007 and 2017-2021 = 9 years total. I did get a forecast in Oct 2019 and it was GBP3,450 p.a. based on 12 years qualifying years. My husband estimates that I would get approx. an extra GBP250 p.a. for each of the 9 gap years I can 'fill'.

I will apply immediately for a new forecast but if anyone has any comment on the above it would be useful.

My CF83 form sent to PT Ops has now been forwarded to the Intl. Pension Centre (26 Jun 2024) Can
anyone suggest when I might expect a reply from them ?

Thank you all in advance.
 

Dazed_and_C0nfused

Some more details.......I want to fill gaps in my NI record for 2006-2007 and 2017-2021 = 9 years total. I did get a forecast in Oct 2019 and it was GBP3,450 p.a. based on 12 years qualifying years. My husband estimates that I would get approx. an extra GBP250 p.a. for each of the 9 gap years I can 'fill'.

Not quite sure where your 9 years is coming from with the years you have quoted.

The good news is that your husband is a little out of date with his estimate as a post 2016 year will currently add £328.64 for the current tax year.

jem16

Dazed_and_C0nfused said:

Some more details.......I want to fill gaps in my NI record for 2006-2007 and 2017-2021 = 9 years total. I did get a forecast in Oct 2019 and it was GBP3,450 p.a. based on 12 years qualifying years. My husband estimates that I would get approx. an extra GBP250 p.a. for each of the 9 gap years I can 'fill'.

Not quite sure where your 9 years is coming from with the years you have quoted.

Just a mistake I think as earlier she had said 2006/7 to 2011/12 plus 2017/18 to 2020/21.