The Spaniel man with a 3 year plan

Floss

So you don't get a haircut ever? Is your buildings insurance a combined policy or do you have no contents insurance? 

DisabledDan

My father had a gambling problem, closed his business and moved to a rural area to avoid the bookies, later he moved onto shares and lost a fortune.  The amount he lost in betting on horses was enough to buy a country house.  In these days of online betting he would be lost, one of my siblings has the same defect.

I don't think you realise what a slippery slope this can be, many people will read you SOA and think you are taking the proverbial urine, the bath is overflowing and you are scooping it out with thimbles whilst not turning the tap off.

The tap is gambling but the debt follows the same psychological profile which I will try to explain.

The first thing you need to do is get yourself to Gamblers Anonymous, no need for research, the link is here:

https://gamblersanonymous.org.uk/

The second thing you need to do is to come clean to your partner, the longer you leave this the more likely she will kick you to the curb, why should she fund your gambling habit, but what will hurt more is the deceit and the lack of trust. 

The third thing you need to do a to get a reality check about your debt, the concept of saving is absurd when you have debt, the best saving rate you can get is to reduce your debt.

Living once is one thing but you are risking your home, your partner and all the things you hold dear.

So what does debt give you?

Fundamentally, it is living beyond your means and it is possible that your gambling is you chasing the money you have already lost.  

Reality check, that will never work.

I have lived in a 4 bed new build detached house, I am not going to go into my earnings but there were periods where I paid between £9k and £12k in deductions on my income.

I can tell you that low income is harder if you have had high income, the bigger they are the harder they fall.

The crazy thing is that you have no need for debt, you just need to change your mindset about spending.  It can feel really good to save for something and finally be able to afford it without borrowing.  

You also need to understand the debt game, it is to put you in a place where you can afford to service the debt but will struggle to pay it off.  They will increase the credit limits until you fall into a deep enough trap, as things stand you are making it easier for them because you are borrowing to pay for gambling debt.

Are you prepared to gamble with your 4 bed new build as the stake?

Are you prepared to gamble with your relationship?

Would your GF be better off to cash out now, force the sale of the house and cut her losses so she does not subsidise your gambling debt?

Are you prepared to gamble those adorable dogs being taken into rescue?

It really is a slippery slope, you might think you have this under control but you don't as long as the gambling continues. 

Exercise is a good thing, but why pay for it, get running, build your own workout, push yourself to the extreme of your ability and track it so you can be proud of your achievements.

We can give you all the advice in the world on burning the debt at both ends by making serious savings on what you spend while you throw savings and every spare penny at eliminating the debt.  Not waiting 22 months, clear it soon and they will increase credit limit, then you might be able to get a redemption figure on those loans but I suspect not much value for the first year.

If you work with GA to figure out the cause of the gambling you will have some chance of recovering from this situation.  Some people, like my dad,  just have a gambling personality, so they have to work lifelong to just say no.  It really is a mugs game.

If you don't tell GF about your gambling and your debt you are lying by omission, she WILL find out and when she does everyone will tell her to cut her losses, your only hope is to come clean, showing her your plan, that you have been to GA and you need her support.  

You have already gambled on the relationship, the odds are worse if she finds out from other sources, which is inevitable, the longer you leave it the more likely she will dump you.

In my opinion debt should be used to fund things that give you a better financial return, the summer house might increase the value of your home but the holiday has no financial return.  It is also foolish to not account for your spending while you are on that holiday.

Some people spend money on shiit they do not need as a psychological way of affirming things are OK.  We can't know what the gambling means to you, I know from family members that gamblers lie to themselves and others.  Some only see the wins, others just chase their losses trying to get back.  You need to cut yourself off from every app, this is not just deleting the apps, it is called self exclusion

https://www.gamblingcommission.gov.uk/public-and-players/page/self-exclusion

You need to delete all your cookies since the beginning of time, change ad ID on every device so that you stop getting ads trying to pull you back in.  This includes deleting games that have ads or gambling like behaviour, anything with a game of chance built in.

It is good that you shame yourself because it is only if you start to respect yourself that you will be entitled to respect from others, including your GF.

We are all human and have our challenges, I am lucky of not having the gambling gene, the worst I did was buy a lottery ticket when street homeless.  I am lucky to have been in military and developed strong self-discipline, still we are all vulnerable sometimes to our own self image. 

If you know you have this addiction you can deal with it, but you need to get to that acceptance.  I was conditioned to be a provider, to be strong mentally and so things like drugs, gambling and alcohol abuse were all weakness in my mind.  When I was homeless I saw people using some of these as a crutch and they were all connected to each other fund their addiction with each others benefits.  It made it very difficult to help them break away, they had lost their self respect and had no concept of self discipline.   They had to hit rock bottom before they would engage in the support that was available, some did not make it.

I know you are worried about your partner but any further delay risks you losing them, right now, they have embarked on a partnership with you, they are invested in you, care for you, love you and trust you.  Right now you can manage your way out of this with their support, failing to tell them now is like chasing another bad bet.  They are your strongest accountability person not us here on this forum and you can't deal with by yourself.  You have already tried, how is that working for you?

All it takes is a few unfortunate circumstances and the game is up, all of it will come crashing down, a lost job an unexpected huge expense.  You know what you need to do, it will make you stronger, do it.

MadSpanielMan said:

Hi everyone and disabled Dan. Thanks for your comments - I know there needs to be hard truths and cutting spending so I am not offended at all by any comments. 

I have always been one of those buy whatever you want kind of person - live once and all that rubbish (I tell myself that). We are essentially the "Jones's" who has a nice big 4 bedroom house (newbuild) and we were lucky enough to get a corner plot and a big garden. Last year I convinced the GF for us to get a summer house and patio done in the garden which cost about 10k. This was the same time we started planning/booking the holiday. I basically sorted out the garden project and used about 5k joint savings and put the other 5k on the 0% purchase card, which is now rolled over onto the 0% balance transfer card. Yes the GF knows there is a few thousand on the card (its in my name) but since we have been booking the holiday throughout the last 12 months too, more has gone onto it whilst still paying it off - hence the approx 6k balance right now. Its partly being brought up with family who did the same and I have become accustomed to the fancy lifestyle and purchases, however change is necessary - I do recognize that. 

@ Disabled Dan - Yes you are right. I recently took out 2 x 3 year - 10k loans. I cleared two old loans and some of the credit card balances on the old CC3, hence why it is now 0. Yes you are right, I recently relapsed from gambling also and spent 4 figures in the last month which was completely wasted. Do I hate myself for it - Absolutely! Do I want to tell the GF this - absolutely not as I fear that will be us done. I may change my mind going forward but for now I want to sort out my/our spending and try to get a better grip on our spending. 

The two loans combined works out at £640 a month, which fortunately I can afford without major issues due to my wage. I absolutely want to clear them faster and get debt free. 

R.e the holiday money - Yes it has come from my savings and not put onto any of the CC's - it was money I had sitting in cash that I didn't include in my 2.5k savings estimate as its been set aside for a while. Looking at my accounts right now I will actually have more than 2.5k as I didn't include the £250 in the regular saver and the £150 in the work account. Plus the additional money sat in the current account not yet spent it could be nearer £3.5k-4k. I only paid off one of the old loans (as mentioned above) literally before opening this thread on Friday so the money hasn't yet gone through so i'm still waiting for confirmation it has been paid off and closed down. 

My personal Debts as of right now (not including the old loan that should get paid off tomorrow). 

Loan 1 - Novuna Personal Finance - 10k - 36 months remaining - £335 per month - 13.3% APR.
Loan 2 - Bank of Scotland - 10k - 36 months remaining - £306.50 per month - 6.7%APR

Savings
£250 - Regular Saver
£150 - Work savings
Approx £3k- £3.5k in current account

Joint Debts (Although the CC's are solely in my name) but we pay them from our joint bills account. 

CC1 - £6.2k / 7k limit - 0% for another 22 months. 
CC2 - £435 / 6k limit - 10.9% APR - this is paid off every month from our joint bills account. Its used for all shopping and purchases - we booked the last of our travel stuff last night - hence the new balance. 
CC3 - £0 balance - 4.5k limit. Card has been cut up and i'll either leave it open or close it. 

Joint Savings

£2k in a savings account. 

Things appear complicated as we each have our own accounts and our own money,  but I do the joint account/money too - hence why we are in this major problem. The GF does look at the accounts but as the CC's are in my name she hasnt seen the balances for a while as I just keep saying "its fine" etc. What I would like to do is get both myself individually and the joint finances in a place where we are stable and where we have a bit more legroom. The GF has a expensive car and a bank loan so she has her own money commitments just now. I do not have car however there has been discussions at work that as all the work vans keep on getting broken into and the tools stolen, we might have to leave them in the yard at work. So at some point I may need a vehicle aswell, which isn't exactly good timing. 

Aims 

I'll do an SOA for myself and a joint one soon.
Research help for my gambling (this is a must do). 
Have a look at our bills and see what can be reduced

On a positive note, I went to the gym the last 2 days and feel slightly better about myself. Also the GF said last night she was going to order some new plates for the house at £50 for the set as she no longer liked the old ones. I had the conversation that we had to watch our spending with the holiday coming up and basically said we couldn't afford them, so hopefully this is the start of being more tight with unnecessary purchases. 

Away to take the 3 dogs for walk soon - been raining all day here in the North West - going to be some muddy spaniels..:-(

MadSpanielMan

DisabledDan - I've been reflecting on your comment for the best part of a week, some of it totally made sense and some of it made me realise a few things, especially the part about being accustomed to servicing debt and falling into the hole. I'll probably reply in full at some point as you brought up so many valid points. 

Basically before last month I hadn't gambled for the best part of 3 or 4 years, but more recently moved into day trading stocks with margin on an app and that's where I lost the four figures after a month of believing I was doing well. Like most times when money is on the line greed became the problem and not the enjoyment. Believe it or not the stock price is now higher so if I didn't use margin upon the price falling I would be in profit 🤦‍♂️ Anyway, no point dwelling and move on. 

I've had a good 7 days overall in some respect.

Unfortunately the boiler broke down on the same day as the shower started leaking in the houss. Called the plumber who was there all day sorting both. Needed some new wet wall and a part for the boiler which came to a grand total of £1100... so it was £900 out of the joint savings and I paid the rest. The Mrs has her car insurance renewal which is about £650 so she has paid that off herself too. Nothing added to the debt pile which made me happy. £1100 which was unexpected though but these things come up. It was only until afterwards I thought about house insurance but lesson learned to look at it next time.

Personally I thought about the credit card and although it was 0%, it was bugging me it being so high. I used 3k of the money I had sitting in my current account and paid off 3k to CC1, which is now down to £3.2k rather than £6.2k. I also plan on using some of the joint savings and getting this lower next month, once I know where we are financially with everything. 

I haven't spent any money personally in the last 7 days at all, home made lunches everyday.

A good deed yesterday, I saw my elderly neighbour trying to wash her upstairs windows on a ladder so I went over and did them for her. She repaid me (not expected) with a box of sweets and 2 bottles of cider, which were promptly opened and consumed with the football last night. 

Anyhow, off to the gym I go as that's me had the dogs out as it was too warm when I came home from work. 

Aiming for another no unnecessary spend week for me at work 🙌 

MadSpanielMan

It was payday yesterday 🙌

I got an extra £150 on my wages due to working an extra Saturday last month which I had forgotten about. It was a job a client payed extra to finish as they were going on holiday the week after. 

Just waiting for the automatic DD's and SO's to come out next week to see what is left over. 

Nothing much spent this last 2 weeks, although I had to work late and stay over at a job on Wednesday so I had to buy my dinner which I'll be able to get back. It's a half decent job so I didn't mind when the boss asked. 

We've been really sensible with the joint money this month, trying to push the Credit card balances down. CC1 should be sub 3k next week which is good as it was at 6.2k just a few weeks ago. 

The first payments of my 2 loans are due to come out next week, I'll be glad to start seeing the balances going down too. 

Going to watch some of the Olympics, get the dogs out down to the river for a swim and then go out for a cycle. 

findingthisdifficult

Hi MadSpanielMan,

Firstly apologies because this is going to be a bit blunt.  

I genuinely wish you lots of luck on your debt busting journey but I have to say having read this thread from start to finish, I think you’re in denial and you haven’t had your lightbulb moment yet.

Starting with your SOA which is not worth the post you have given it as it’s a mix of what you’re spending and what is covered from the joint account I guess?

I’m guessing water rates are included somewhere else, so you’re not in England?

You have no mobile phone bill but you said in a previous post that your phone is £45 a month?

You don’t pay for a TV license, not entirely unusual nowadays but still worth checking.

You don’t ever buy clothing?

You spend £200 a month on petrol/diesel but pay no road tax, insurance or maintainance costs and don’t have a car?

You never pay to park anywhere and you never have any travel costs? 

Neither of you go to the dentist ever, again not entirely unusual nowadays?

No contents insurance?

No life assurance? (this is quite unusual if you have a mortgage)

£100 a month on gifts, assuming you have a separate account that you’re putting this £100 in to every month?

No emergency fund?

You have 3 spaniels and they only cost £40 a month to feed and is insurance for 3 dogs really £60?  I had one dog and he cost me more than that a month on food and insurance alone, he was smaller than a spaniel. 

You’ve guessed at £500 a month for food, you need to sit down with all your bank statements and add up how much you’re actually spending.  All those little trips to the local shop for bread and milk usually end up being £15-£20 shopping trips. 

I’d also guess you’re spending more than £150 on entertainment and there is nothing left to throw at the CC debts.

Re your gambling situation, gamcare were really helpful to my sister who also had a gambling problem to the point where she tried to take her own life, I’d recommend talking to them. 

You and the GF should not be thinking about fancy once in a lifetime holidays when you have a pickle of debt to sort out between you.  I’ll go against the grain of most people here and say I think it’s ok to have a small holiday when you’re paying off debt but the sum you are talking about is crazy.

Neither of you know what the other one is doing with your separate finances, this will not end well I can assure you.

Finally, just to play devil’s advocate, what happens if one of you suddenly:

loses a job

becomes critically ill - can’t work for a long time

becomes terminally ill - dies

You don’t appear to have any policies in place to protect the other person.

You and your girlfriend need to put the brakes on, sit down together with all your bank statements and come up with a proper plan, conversations about £50 dinner plates won’t even be happening because you will both know how bad your situation is and you can hopefully approach it together,

You’re one bad day away from losing everything, only you can get this ship back on course and I promise you, it won’t be easy but it will be worth it. 

MadSpanielMan

So another week passed and nothing major to report. No stupid financial decision which is good. Lots of disbelief from people but I'm just trying to do what's right right now. 

Joint finances

All the bills came out the joint account so I was able to see what we were left with. 

I used £250 from the emergency savings and also £500 from bills account and paid another chunk off the big credit card (CC1) - Balance now £2.5k. We put it a set amount every month and the left over money after bills allows for debt repayment or savings, it just depends how much is sitting in the account. This month is was £500 for debts. 

The monthly shopping and spending credit card, CC2, was paid off too (this gets done at the beginning of every month from the bills account). It was about £915 but included shopping, fuel, days out and other bits. Balance now 0. This is a rinse and repeat cycle. 

CC3 (old one which I was going to close) is still at 0. I listened to someone's advice on here and cut the card but kept the account open to show I'm not using all my credit. 

Emergency savings down to £1000. 
Credit card debt down to £2,500. 

Personal finances

Both first payments of my new loans came out, along with my SO for £250 for my regular saver. Work savings account, which I think my company say earns 2.5% interest, now has £300 in it.This was a savings plan my company only started last year to encourage people to reduce stress and save through work for yearly holidays etc as some trades dont take holidays due to wanting to work for excess cash and then moan about being overworked. I never signed up but recently when I heard the other boys talking about forgetting it was there and having a decent sum I signed up and I put £150 a month away. 

Current account - approx £600
Savings - £800
Loans - £19,600 ish - 35 months remaining 

Another two work vans got broken into last week and some tools stolen, including a new mixer and some stock for a customers job. The boss isn't happy and is talking about keeping the vans in the locked yard but potentially giving us all a pay increase to compensate for getting to work ourselves. He is a really deceny boss and its a good firm to work for but i'm hoping I don't need to buy anything 😔

MadSpanielMan

findingthisdifficult said:

Hi MadSpanielMan

You don’t pay for a TV license, not entirely unusual nowadays but still worth checking.

You don’t ever buy clothing?

You spend £200 a month on petrol/diesel but pay no road tax, insurance or maintainance costs and don’t have a car?

You never pay to park anywhere and you never have any travel costs? 

Neither of you go to the dentist ever, again not entirely unusual nowadays?

No contents insurance?

No life assurance? (this is quite unusual if you have a mortgage)

No emergency fund?

You have 3 spaniels and they only cost £40 a month to feed and is insurance for 3 dogs really £60?  I had one dog and he cost me more than that a month on food and insurance alone, he was smaller than a spaniel. 

I’d also guess you’re spending more than £150 on entertainment and there is nothing left to throw at the CC debts.  

Hi

No we don't watch alot of TV and when we do it'd netflix and amazon prime. 

No I rarely buy clothing in all honesty. 

The wife has her car, she pays for it and it's maintainance but the fuel costs come out of the joint account as I sometimes use it. Plus we use it to visit both families etc. I don't mind this. 

Thanks for reminding me about the dentist, haven't been in a few years and I should really go. I suspect I'll have been thrown off the list for my local one as I ignored the last few letters informing me I should get an appointment for a general check up. 

Yes we have house insurance, this was on our joint SOA I think. 

Emergency fund is at £1000. 

Food/insurance for the 3 dogs. They are all small spaniels and I get away with 2 bags of food from my local pet supply place which is approx £19.50 a bag so £39. 
Insurance is a multi policy which is £59.55 a month. 

Sarahwithlove

Why did you use your savings to clear a 0% credit card you had a plan for? What will now happen to that 3k extra you will have in joint account by end of 0% period?

You'd have been better off paying that £3k off your ridiculously high loan that's 13% interest. I feel like you've just plastered over the issue by getting a loan and not considered the implications and how much extra you are paying in interest as a result.

Once you have an emergency fund of £1k for yourself and maybe a joint one of say £2k? Everything else should be going on your loans and making overpayments to bring the timescale and interest down. 

I have to agree I don't think you've had your light bulb moment yet because if you had you'd have realised that clearing your loans should be priority. 

MFWannabe

I would say OP has paid it off the credit card as girlfriend doesn’t know about ‘his’ debts and he doesn’t want to tell her 😞

Sarahwithlove

MFWannabe said:

I would say OP has paid it off the credit card as girlfriend doesn’t know about ‘his’ debts and he doesn’t want to tell her 😞

But it was savings in his current account not his gf so she would only have known about it if he told her. They had a plan for joint credit card to come from joint account as joint debt and how it should be