Employed again, started paying off debts, now Cabot digs up old debt

StopTheDebt

I'll start with a very brief summary.....

Over a decade of fighting new and old debts, being self-employed with a tiny online business didn't help solve my debt problems.

Then covid hit and the business boomed (I did not receive any grants or payments during covid) but when it all blew over and the country went into the 'cost of living' crisis my business suffered pretty quickly.

So, I made a wise decision and started seeking full time employment. It took 18 long months to find a job and I started in July 2023.

I was used to hardship, after my second pay slip I was getting back on my feet pretty quickly.

On the 4th September 2023, I received an email from Cabot regarding the Aqua - Credit Card debt I had with them. I responded by creating an online account on the 5th, filling in all the personal information, budget information and payment plan.

I thought everything was set-up but the Aqua - Credit Card debt had been defaulted for a second time and past on to Mortimer Clarke Solicitors - After some back and forth emails, I eventually sorted it out and set-up a payment plan, which starts on 1st June 2024.

While that was going on, Cabot had sent me a 70% off settlement offer for the Lloyds - Credit Card debt (an older debt I had with them for a long time).

It would be a struggle for 3 months but well worth doing - That debt has since been paid off and is closed, the one that had been hanging around for many many years! Finally gone!!

Now, this is where I would appreciate your advice and help please....

On the 26th April, regarding the Lloyds - Current Account debt, Cabot sent a letter stating "Your account has returned from our solicitors with a County Court Judgment".

Well, it was a debt from 2014, Cabot say they have been the legal owners since 25th September 2018.

This debt only surfaced since I have made payments on 2 other debts.

I have never made a payment, set-up a plan or even acknowledged this debt.

I have since had back and forth emails with Cabot and their complaints department, all of which are listed in the chain of events.

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Here's the chain of events with details from emails and letters:

• 04/09/23 - Email from Cabot regarding Aqua - Credit Card debt being overdue.

• 05/09/23 - I created an online account with Cabot and provided all information.

• 05/09/23 - Email from Cabot

Your accounts with Cabot
 

Cabot Reference	Account Name	Balance	Status
3xxxxxx0	Aqua Credit Card	£2,127.59	No plan in place

Hi xxxxxxx, 

Please can you confirm another previous address you have had? We may hold another account for you. 

Thank you for getting in touch with us. I can see we had a different address so I have got this updated now, this can take over night to update. I have now sent you the link to register, please activate this within 24 hours otherwise the link will expire! You will then be able to view and manage your account online.

It’s my job to make sure that your account will be cleared in the shortest timeframe possible based on your affordability. So, I can do that for you, please can you follow this link and complete our online budget planner .If it shows its affordable, you can set your plan up there and then! 

You will need to use our website rather than our app to do this.

I've put your account on hold for 7 days, if I don’t hear back from you, we’ll be back in touch. As this account is being reported on your Credit File once you have started your repayments, we can begin updating your balance.

If there is anything else I can help you with, just contact me on the details below.

Thank you

• 11/09/23 - Email from Cabot wanting more information

• 11/09/23 - Reply to Cabot Email with the information they requested

• 14/09/23 - Email from Cabot (first mention of the Lloyds - Current Account debt)

Your accounts with Cabot
 
Cabot Reference     Account Name     Balance     Status
3xxxxxx0     Aqua - Credit Card     £2,127.59     Not in a plan
1xxxxxx1     Lloyds - Credit Card     £4,501.61     Paying plan
3xxxxxx2     Lloyds - Current Account             -     Account with Restons
 
Thanks for getting back to me.
I have included all accounts above that we are the legal owner's of here at Cabot.
Regarding the account above that is with Reston's Solicitors, you will need to contact them directly. You can set up payment plans on these account, by following the below steps. You may need to link these online first, this can be done under the my account page.
 
- Click on the “my account” page, you will then see a break down of your account.
- Click on “view account” to go into your account, you will then have the option to set up a payment plan.

The Aqua account is being reported on your Credit File once you have started your repayments, we can begin updating your balance.

If there is anything else I can help you with, just contact me on the details below.

Thank you

*Since then, I paid off the Lloyds - Credit Card debt and set-up a payment plan for the Aqua - Credit Card debt.

Then Cabot digs up the old Lloyds - Current Account debt and this is where I need help. Here's what has happened:

• 2024/04/26 - Letter from Cabot received in post regarding the Lloyds - Current Account debt

Your account has returned from our solicitors with a County Court Judgment.

Your account was previously placed with our solicitor who obtained a CCJ against you. You now need to start making payments to your account. If you don't get an arrangement in place, we could send your account back to our solicitors for further legal action.

• 2024/05/07 - Email to Cabot

Hello,

I received a letter from Cabot, sent on 26 April 2024, stating "Your account has returned from our solicitors with a County Court Judgment".
Further stating, "your account was previously place with our solicitor who obtained a CCJ against you".

This is the first I heard back from you regarding this specific account, since the email you sent me on 14/09/23, which listed all the accounts/debts I had with Cabot, with this one saying "Account with Reston's)
I have had no communication with the solicitors dealing with this.

I don't understand how they can obtain a CCJ against me without giving me a chance to set-up a payment plan or actually contact me to state they will be looking to obtain a CCJ against me.
Especially when I have been paying off debts and setting up plans with Cabot for the outstanding debts.
By the way, I have now paid off the account with reference 1xxxxxx1 (Lloyds Bank - Credit Card) and also set-up a payment plan for the account with reference 3xxxxxx0 (Aqua - Mastercard), which was passed onto Mortimer Clarke Solicitors.

It's obvious that I'm trying to pay off these debts now I'm in a more stable financial position and I have never avoided paying them.
I will be seeking further advice if the CCJ isn't removed.

Regards
xxxxxxxxxxxxx

• 2024/05/10 - Email from Cabot

I am sorry for the inconvenience you've experienced and appreciate you bringing your concerns to our attention.
I have logged a complaint for you, and our Complaints Team will thoroughly investigate the matter and provide a response as soon as possible.
Your complaint reference is xx xxxxxx xx.

• 2024/05/17 - Email from Cabot Complaints (complaints@cabotfinancial.com)

We’ve finished our investigation into your complaint.
Attached to this e-mail is our final response to your complaint.

Final Response:

I am writing further to your email received on 07 May 2024. My name is xxxxxx, I am the Complaint Handler who has investigated your concerns. I hope to help you now by providing a resolution to this matter.

My understanding of your complaint.
You are unhappy to have received a letter from us (Cabot) informing you a County Court Judgment (CCJ) has been obtained against you.
You state you received no contact from Restons Solicitors (Restons) regarding this and would like the CCJ removed.

My investigation.
Your Lloyds Bank Current Account was opened on xx July 1997, terminated on xx December 2013 and we have been the legal owners since our purchase on 25 September 2018.
This was confirmed by the Notice of Assignment (NOA) issued to your former address 8 xxxxxxx, shortly after.
This letter also informed you the account would remain with our external agent Wescot to be managed on our behalf, as it had been for Lloyds.
The decision was taken to recall the account from Wescot on 11 April 2019, so it could be managed directly by us moving forward.
The account was placed with our Customer Operations department, and we attempted to contact you to gain an understand of your circumstances and set up a repayment arrangement, with the payments being made directly to us instead of Wescot.
As we were unable to reach you, the account was placed with Resolvecall on 16 October 2019, however it appears they were unable to reach you and the account was returned to us on 24 February 2020.
On 28 May 2020 Experian supplied us with a new address for you, so this was updated on our system from 8 xxxxxxx, to 8 xxxxxxx.
As we remained unable to engage with you, the account was placed with Restons on 16 December, who attempted contact with you on numerous occasions.
Following this, as Restons did not receive contact from you, legal proceedings were initiated on 25 January 2021, and you would have received court documentation.
You were required to complete this and return it directly to the court.
Within this documentation you had the opportunity to put forward a defence.
As the documentation was not completed and returned to the Court, a CCJ was obtained on 16 February under reference HXXXXXXX.
As Restons remained unable to reach you they applied for an Attachment of Earnings (AOE) on 25 June 2021, however, I am unable to locate any record of this having been obtained.
The account was recalled from Restons on 19 April 2024, and a letter was issued to you informing you of this.
Upon receipt of this letter, you contacted us and due to your comments, this complaint was logged for you, so we could investigate your concerns.
Having reviewed the account, I note there were further address changes, the latest to your current address in your email to us actioned by xxxxx, one of our Customer Consultants, on 14 September 2023.
I do need to make you aware; it is your responsibility to keep us updated with any changes to your contact details.
I note Restons also attempted to contact you on telephone numbers ending xx04 and xx76, both of which we still hold for you.

Conclusion.
Having reviewed the account and all the information available to me, I am satisfied the account has
been administered, and the CCJ obtained correctly.

All that has led me here!

I'm lost as what to do next.

My credit report doesn't show any CCJ's, so are Cabot lying about the CCJ?

Do I still have to pay off the old Lloyds - Current Account debt?

I would appreciate any advice and help with this matter please.

Thank you

D

RAS

Difficult to work through all this but if there was any period since 1997 when you didn't pay this debt or acknowledge in writing for 6 years, it could be statute barred.

Of course that doesn't prevent the creditor getting a CCJ if the documentation was sent to an old address. That could be set aside.

However if 6 years passed from the date of the CCJ without successful legal action to enforce, then it is covered by a different section of the Limitation Act. 

In which case you can be asked nicely to cough up, but there is no obligation to pay. In England the debt still exists but the creditor cannot take legal action to force payment, and may have only paid pennies in the pound to acquire it.

StopTheDebt

Thanks for the reply RAS, I'll look into the points you made and see what can be done.

sourcrates

Basically if there is judgement, they had 6 years to enforce it, after that it would become unenforceable.

As RAS stated, they can ask you to pay, but can`t force the issue now.

Check your dates etc.

StopTheDebt

Thanks sourcrates.

I've paid for a search of my name with TrustOnline at the 2 addressess Cabot held.

The CCJ was obtained on the 16 February 2021, the report listed the CCJ at the property I had long moved out and the address had a glaring error.

Possible matches are returned if a record found on the Register(s) is very similar, though not identical, to the
details submitted in the search request.

So, here are the key dates for the Lloyds - Current Account debt:

6 December 2013 - Account was closed.

25 September 2018 - Cabot purchased the debt (which was with there external agent Wescot).

11 April 2019 - Cabot recalled the account from Wescot.

16 October 2019 - Account was placed with Resolvecall.

24 February 2020 - Account returned to Cabot.

28 May 2020 - Experian supplied Cabot with a new address. (I had already moved twice since then)

16 December 2020 - Account was placed with Restons.

25 January 2021- Restons initiated legal proceedings.

16 February 2021 - CCJ was obtained.

14 September 2023 - Email from Cabot (first mention of the Lloyds - Current Account debt).

19 April 2024 - Account was recalled from Restons

26 April 2024 - Letter from Cabot stating "Your account has returned from our solicitors with a CCJ".

So, the account closed on 6 December 2013 and the CCJ was obtained on 16 February 2021. 

Does this mean it has a chance to be set aside?

sourcrates

Do you know when the account defaulted, what date?

The cause of action date is now defined as the date of default, if Cabot took legal action anytime within 6 years of the account defaulting, then you would not be able to use the limitation act to apply for a set aside.

If more than 6 years passed before they obtained judgement, the debt would likely have been statute barred, so that would change things, but you must be certain of the default date.

StopTheDebt

sourcrates said:

Do you know when the account defaulted, what date?

The cause of action date is now defined as the date of default, if Cabot took legal action anytime within 6 years of the account defaulting, then you would not be able to use the limitation act to apply for a set aside.

If more than 6 years passed before they obtained judgement, the debt would likely have been statute barred, so that would change things, but you must be certain of the default date.

Sorry I don't know, I only have the date in which the acount closed (stated in the 'Cabot investigation').

I can only give a guess that 'the account would have defaulted after 3 missed payments' before it closed on 6 December 2013.

Would I need to 'request a copy of the credit agreement and/or a statement of the account' from Cabot?

Would default information be listed in that?

StopTheDebt

StopTheDebt said:

Thanks sourcrates.

I've paid for a search of my name with TrustOnline at the 2 addressess Cabot held.

The CCJ was obtained on the 16 February 2021, the report listed the CCJ at the property I had long moved out and the address had a glaring error.

Possible matches are returned if a record found on the Register(s) is very similar, though not identical, to the
details submitted in the search request.

I didn't go into this at the time of posting and I may be clutching at straws.

The address has the correct postcode but the main part of the address is jumbled up, so, it could have easily been sent to that house (which exists) instead of the correct address.

If you did not get the court papers through the post, the court will not always agree that this is a good reason to set aside the judgment. The court is allowed to send the papers to your usual or last-known address (even if you have moved), unless the creditor has reason to believe that you have moved. If you have moved and have given your creditors your new address, then you should be contacted there.

If you have moved and there are reasons why your creditor should be aware of this, they should take reasonable steps to try to find your current address. If they are not able to find your current address, they should consider whether there is any other way of sending the claim form to you. If no suitable alternative is available, they can send the papers to your old address even though they know that you do not live there anymore.

If these rules have been followed but you didn’t receive the claim, you will need to show the court that there are other reasons why the judgment should be set aside.

However, if the rules have not been followed, the court may set aside the judgment. The court will usually agree to set aside a judgment if:

• the creditor should have known that you had moved, and did not try to find your current address or consider another way of sending the claim to you;
• you can prove you gave the creditor your new address before the claim was issued; or
• the claim was not made following the rules, for example, the papers were sent to the wrong address.

sourcrates

Cabot won`t hold any statements or a credit agreement, they always stay with the OC, and default info would not be contained in any of those documents anyway.

Going on what you have said, its more than likely that the debt was statute barred in 2019, two years before Cabot obtained a judgment.

Although you have only circumstantial proof of that, they won`t be able to contest it as as it has long ago vanished from your credit report.

In my view you have two choices, apply for set aside based on-

(A) Not receiving the initial court papers
and 
(B) The debt was likely statute barred by time of judgement.

That will cost you £275 court fee.

Or, accept the loss, and arrange a payment plan.

Up to you.

StopTheDebt

Thanks for putting me in a clear direction with the specific advice sourcrates.

I'll update with what is happening down the road.