HR told me they won’t pay me for my sick leave

Savvy_Sue

You could ask if they would consider deducting the overpayment over, say, 3 months. I don't think you'll make friends by repeating that it's their mistake, they don't HAVE to do anything, but it's worth an ask.

swingaloo

Savvy_Sue said:

You could ask if they would consider deducting the overpayment over, say, 3 months. I don't think you'll make friends by repeating that it's their mistake, they don't HAVE to do anything, but it's worth an ask.

What overpayment ?

elsien

khamzat93 said:

DullGreyGuy said:

I'm surprised you were signed off for 10 days for Bells Palsy, had the misfortune of having it last August and speaking/not dribbling was difficult but didnt even think of taking time off work... even went through 3 interviews (got the job) with it - A&E did tell me off for delaying going as obv symptoms aren't dissimilar to a stroke but interview was more important at the time. 

Any enhanced sick pay will come down to the terms and conditions of your employment, you should be able to check them in your contract or on the intranet/HR site. Given you had a fit note from a doctor saying you weren't fit to work then you will get Statutory Sick Pay as that isn't subject to company policy. 

Bells Palsy is pretty serious, didn’t even know what it was until I got it. I can’t close my eye, speak or eat properly at the moment. 

It’s the fact they’ve made a mistake and provided me with false information which has now put me in a very difficult situation as I have monthly outgoings, debts and other things I need to pay for. If I knew I wasn’t going to be paid, I would have told the doctor to allow me to work but on amended duties, my team leader knows this too but instead HR and my team leader both told me I’ll be paid in full, not to worry and just to rest. 

The doctor can’t make your company let you work on amended duties - It is not within their power to do that. And your company are under no obligation to offer you amended duties. 

Either you are fit to work your usual role, or you are not. 

I don’t think them making a mistake about the amount of sick leave you had left means they then have to pay you in full. Did you not know yourself what your entitlement is and how much you’d used?

DullGreyGuy

TELLIT01 said:

A colleague of mine had a severe episode of Bells Palsy and was off work for several weeks.  Just because one person didn't have a case severe enough to be off work doesn't mean every other case is the same.

Lets be honest, Bells Palsy causes the paralysis of one side of your face, there isn't really severe and non-severe versions of that. What does vary is how quickly you regain control and how you feel personally (not ill/unwell) looking a bit of a weirdo with dribbling on one slide, can't blow your nose etc. Given recovery time for Bells is listed a month to 6 months with some having permanent issues the 1.5 week sign off won't cover even recovery on a short case and "bad" is about duration.

The OP has implied they may not have asked their doctor to be signed off for 10 days had HR correctly told them that they wouldn't be getting full sick pay for that period. Never wanting to say anything similar to the Conservative Party but there sounds like a notable amount of discretion involved in this if they feel they'd not have been considered too ill to work had they known they'd be down to SSP. 

Clearly doctors sign off should be purely based on medical need but the reality is very different as per the receptionist asking how many weeks off the patient wanted on the fit note when I was collecting a blood test form last week.  

Savvy_Sue

swingaloo said:

Savvy_Sue said:

You could ask if they would consider deducting the overpayment over, say, 3 months. I don't think you'll make friends by repeating that it's their mistake, they don't HAVE to do anything, but it's worth an ask.

What overpayment ?

Ah right, I'm not reading the timeline carefully enough. I think I'd assumed that full pay had been given, in error, and would now be deducted - it's what we used to have to do if sickness fell too close to payday and someone wasn't entitled to full CSP. 

khamzat93

It wasn’t my team leaders fault, it’s HR’s fault, even on our HR portal, under time off it showed I had 10 days of sick pay entitlement so even if I hadn’t spoke to my team leader and had been misled, I would have been mislead this way instead, so that’s two errors they made.

LinLui

khamzat93 said:

It wasn’t my team leaders fault, it’s HR’s fault, even on our HR portal, under time off it showed I had 10 days of sick pay entitlement so even if I hadn’t spoke to my team leader and had been misled, I would have been mislead this way instead, so that’s two errors they made.

It isn't anyones "fault". Or it is your "fault" as well. It is a mistake. Mistakes happen. You also knew,  or should have known,  how much occupational sick leave you have and how much you have taken. It's two errors you have made, as much as they may have. You can't just blame everyone else. You were not misled. Some people - including you - made a mistake and luckily they raised it before you were paid,  because if they'd paid you you would have had to repay it. 

You are not in any worse position because if this mistake. 

And much as I disagree with @DullGreyGuy - how "serious" a condition is depends on many factors, and just because they appear to have breezed through it doesn't mean someone else can or will - they do have a point about the sick pay. You are either too sick to work,  or you are not. If you are not,  why did you get a sick note? If the only reason you did so was because you thought you could get two weeks sick leave with full pay,  then you are not very sick at all. If you are genuinely not fit for work,  then what sick pay you are entitled to is irrelevant.

housebuyer143

khamzat93 said:

It wasn’t my team leaders fault, it’s HR’s fault, even on our HR portal, under time off it showed I had 10 days of sick pay entitlement so even if I hadn’t spoke to my team leader and had been misled, I would have been mislead this way instead, so that’s two errors they made.

So if the HR portal had said you had 20 days, would you be signed off for 20?
You knew you didn't have 10 because you repeatedly asked your manager about this and told us you had 17 days off last year. They have noticed their mistake and put it right, it doesn't change your prognosis. 
If you are too ill to work, then you are too ill to work so having 3 days or 60 wouldn't change that? 

This is why many people take out critical illness cover to cover them if they get ill and need prolonged periods off work. Your work is under no obligation to pay you because they made a mistake and if you are not careful you will start sounding like you are only off for 10 days because you wanted to take advantage of the remaining sick days.

Get well soon. 

DullGreyGuy

housebuyer143 said:
This is why many people take out critical illness cover to cover them if they get ill and need prolonged periods off work. Your work is under no obligation to pay you because they made a mistake and if you are not careful you will start sounding like you are only off for 10 days because you wanted to take advantage of the remaining sick days.

Bells wouldn't be covered by Critical Illness, this is much more an argument for having Income Protection however most achieve sensible premiums by having a deferment period measured in months not days and so wouldn't respond for a 10 day sickness

Undervalued

khamzat93 said:

Brie said:

How much time did you have off for bronchitis?  Sounds like there's some sort of rolling year for sick leave and they are now saying you have exceeded the maximum.  If you took 10 days last Sept and the max allowed is 10 days then yes you're in a bit of a mess. 

You should as a minimum get statutory sick leave I believe.  It's minimal granted but better than nothing.  

Do you have a union who could work on your behalf to find a compromise?  Maybe you need to have this back dated as holiday if it really leaves you stuck.  

I was off for 17 days but I provided all the sick notes and evidence that I was sick and in hospital. I’m entitled to 20 days sick pay in a rolling year which I even mentioned to my team leader last week when I spoke to him but again he and HR reassured me not worry and that I will be paid in full for this time I’m taking off but now they’re telling me I won’t be paid because they made a mistake. Even on my account on the HR portal it showed that I had 10 days remaining so they’ve even made an error there. 

I’m not currently with a union, no. 

It depends what you mean by "entitled".

These days hard and fast entitlements to company sick pay are becoming rare and the majority of schemes are "discretionary". If that is the case then any numbers you see quoted are more a guide to the firm's normal practice rather than a guarantee.

In either case it is separate to your statutory sick pay (c. £100 a week after the first three days) which is a legal entitlement assuming you have paid enough NI contributions. The cost of SSP, despite the name, is still met by the employer and not the government.