Working at a company with no HR

Charlotte_Ca

I've worked for global companies that have an HR department and once in my life I worked for a small start up with no HR.

I'm in the process of job hunting again and I had an interview with a company that had been trading for 70 years, but had no HR. They were just using recruiters to find candidates. From the beginning I sort of didn't like them because of this reason and because it was a small office maybe 10-15 people. It's a family business, but they do well nationally. To be fair I didn't like the job much either, but I went to the interview for the experience. In reality they were looking for a manager, but they didn't advertise it like that so they don't pay the employee much money I think. I wasn't interested to become a manager.

I'm scared of small offices like that because it would be difficult if you don't hit it off with some people. It's like you don't have many options.

Anyway, where I want to end up is have you worked in companies that have no HR and what do you think about it?

From my experience when I worked on that start up with no HR, I didn't like it in the end because it was during COVID, the company wasn't doing well and I was made redundant within 6 months. I was furloughed for the last 3 months or so and they only told me about the redundancy on an e-mail. We were maybe 10 people on the office. I was younger back then and didn't mind a lot of things, but that experience made me realise now that I prefer bigger offices with way more people and something that has an HR because if something happens you can go to them. 

DullGreyGuy

As a day rate contractor I couldn't tell you if most my clients had a HR function or not, Id assume they do but I have nothing to do with them in 99% of engagements. 

One of my near last perm roles was a very large organisation setup with multiple divisions. Just before I left they restructured HR taking it out of the individual divisions and creating a Group wide function that was very heavy on self service with a lot of online forms, user guides and ticketing systems. 

It depends what you want out of a HR department, in my needs its mainly advice on TUPE and succession planning. Recruitement is barely a HR function and in some cases falls under procurement if its temporary resources you are hiring. 

Office size is one consideration, who the senior management are though is also very important. Family businesses or those where the founders are still the board tend to be a bit of a cult of personality and no HR department is going to be able to move the needle on that. A former client was the later, the HR department were trying hard on the Diversity & Inclusion front but the Exec loved heavy drinking and if you weren't willing/able to go to the pub/bar 2-3 times a week your career options were limited. 

elsien

We regard to your experiences during Covid, I’m not sure it would’ve made much difference if they’d had an HR department or not. 

Although there should be a consultation, because the number of people being made redundant was less than 20 there are no guidelines around how the consultation process should be carried out.
And although you say you were made redundant, because you’d been there less than six months, they could have got rid of you anyway without giving a reason. So in  those very specific circumstances, I think you would likely have found the same thing would have happened regardless of any HR involvement. 

Given your previous threads, have you considered that you might need to do a little bit more self reflection around your anxieties and areas you find difficult at work?

Charlotte_Ca

DullGreyGuy said:

As a day rate contractor I couldn't tell you if most my clients had a HR function or not, Id assume they do but I have nothing to do with them in 99% of engagements. 

One of my near last perm roles was a very large organisation setup with multiple divisions. Just before I left they restructured HR taking it out of the individual divisions and creating a Group wide function that was very heavy on self service with a lot of online forms, user guides and ticketing systems. 

It depends what you want out of a HR department, in my needs its mainly advice on TUPE and succession planning. Recruitement is barely a HR function and in some cases falls under procurement if its temporary resources you are hiring. 

Office size is one consideration, who the senior management are though is also very important. Family businesses or those where the founders are still the board tend to be a bit of a cult of personality and no HR department is going to be able to move the needle on that. A former client was the later, the HR department were trying hard on the Diversity & Inclusion front but the Exec loved heavy drinking and if you weren't willing/able to go to the pub/bar 2-3 times a week your career options were limited. 

One of the other reasons why I think I like it when companies have an HR department is because they can step in if there is a conflict and one of their roles is also to enhance the working experience of the employees. Like do employee engagement surveys, launch social events for the employees etc

Charlotte_Ca

elsien said:

We regard to your experiences during Covid, I’m not sure it would’ve made much difference if they’d had an HR department or not. 

Although they should be a consultation, because the number of people being made redundant was less than 20 there are no guidelines around how the consultation process should be carried out.

And although you say you were made redundant, because you’d been there less than six months, they could have got rid of you anyway without giving a reason.

So in  those very specific circumstances, I think you would likely have found the same thing would have happened regardless of any HR involvement. 

Given your previous threads, have you considered that you might need to do a little bit more self reflection around your anxieties and areas you find difficult at work?

Regarding your last question, I'm on a path of self reflection many years now and there has been progress. However, one key question to ask is when the environment is not ideal, then why should it be that the individual is the one that has the anxieties? 

LinLui

Charlotte_Ca said:

DullGreyGuy said:

As a day rate contractor I couldn't tell you if most my clients had a HR function or not, Id assume they do but I have nothing to do with them in 99% of engagements. 

One of my near last perm roles was a very large organisation setup with multiple divisions. Just before I left they restructured HR taking it out of the individual divisions and creating a Group wide function that was very heavy on self service with a lot of online forms, user guides and ticketing systems. 

It depends what you want out of a HR department, in my needs its mainly advice on TUPE and succession planning. Recruitement is barely a HR function and in some cases falls under procurement if its temporary resources you are hiring. 

Office size is one consideration, who the senior management are though is also very important. Family businesses or those where the founders are still the board tend to be a bit of a cult of personality and no HR department is going to be able to move the needle on that. A former client was the later, the HR department were trying hard on the Diversity & Inclusion front but the Exec loved heavy drinking and if you weren't willing/able to go to the pub/bar 2-3 times a week your career options were limited. 

One of the other reasons why I think I like it when companies have an HR department is because they can step in if there is a conflict and one of their roles is also to enhance the working experience of the employees. Like do employee engagement surveys, launch social events for the employees etc

The role - the only role - of HR is to protect and enhance the employers interests. If that has benefit to the employees, that's a nice sideline. If there is conflict,  or you need someone on your side, then that is a trade union (or legal advice of some form that you pay for). There are certainly some lovely people in HR roles,  but you should never get confused by that - they are not on your side,  they are on the employers side,  and if they side with you on an issue then that is because it's in the employers interests to do so. 

Phoenix72

Charlotte_Ca said:

DullGreyGuy said:

As a day rate contractor I couldn't tell you if most my clients had a HR function or not, Id assume they do but I have nothing to do with them in 99% of engagements. 

One of my near last perm roles was a very large organisation setup with multiple divisions. Just before I left they restructured HR taking it out of the individual divisions and creating a Group wide function that was very heavy on self service with a lot of online forms, user guides and ticketing systems. 

It depends what you want out of a HR department, in my needs its mainly advice on TUPE and succession planning. Recruitement is barely a HR function and in some cases falls under procurement if its temporary resources you are hiring. 

Office size is one consideration, who the senior management are though is also very important. Family businesses or those where the founders are still the board tend to be a bit of a cult of personality and no HR department is going to be able to move the needle on that. A former client was the later, the HR department were trying hard on the Diversity & Inclusion front but the Exec loved heavy drinking and if you weren't willing/able to go to the pub/bar 2-3 times a week your career options were limited. 

One of the other reasons why I think I like it when companies have an HR department is because they can step in if there is a conflict and one of their roles is also to enhance the working experience of the employees. Like do employee engagement surveys, launch social events for the employees etc

Not sure what pink and fluffy area you are employed in but that's not my experience of HR

Charlotte_Ca

Phoenix72 said:

Charlotte_Ca said:

DullGreyGuy said:

As a day rate contractor I couldn't tell you if most my clients had a HR function or not, Id assume they do but I have nothing to do with them in 99% of engagements. 

One of my near last perm roles was a very large organisation setup with multiple divisions. Just before I left they restructured HR taking it out of the individual divisions and creating a Group wide function that was very heavy on self service with a lot of online forms, user guides and ticketing systems. 

It depends what you want out of a HR department, in my needs its mainly advice on TUPE and succession planning. Recruitement is barely a HR function and in some cases falls under procurement if its temporary resources you are hiring. 

Office size is one consideration, who the senior management are though is also very important. Family businesses or those where the founders are still the board tend to be a bit of a cult of personality and no HR department is going to be able to move the needle on that. A former client was the later, the HR department were trying hard on the Diversity & Inclusion front but the Exec loved heavy drinking and if you weren't willing/able to go to the pub/bar 2-3 times a week your career options were limited. 

One of the other reasons why I think I like it when companies have an HR department is because they can step in if there is a conflict and one of their roles is also to enhance the working experience of the employees. Like do employee engagement surveys, launch social events for the employees etc

Not sure what pink and fluffy area you are employed in but that's not my experience of HR

What's your experience with HR? Good or bad?

Hoenir

You need to be far more flexible, adaptable, dynamic person to work in successfull small companies. When you find find the right employer can be extremely rewarding. 

Brie

I've worked in big companies and small.  And I've worked in and out of HR in a company.  

And my opinion is it doesn't matter the size, it's all down to the manager you have.  If you have a manager that's a tyrant everyone suffers even if there's a HR department to fire fight.  If you have a great manager they can cut through the bureaucracy and ensure their team is looked after as much as is possible.  And there are tyrants and bullies in HR as much as there is in other areas of business.  

I do quite get the preference for a larger employer.  A number of years back I joined a large company and realised within days that I was in the wrong role.  But my manager was one of the good guys and helped me move sideways into another more suitable role, one that I stayed in for nearly 5 years before there was a restructure and I needed to make another move.  This was a success because I had good managers, not because HR was being particularly helpful.  It was the company where I ended up in HR and cutting through the bureaucracy was brutal.  

Elliott.T123

Charlotte_Ca said:

One of the other reasons why I think I like it when companies have an HR department is because they can step in if there is a conflict and one of their roles is also to enhance the working experience of the employees. Like do employee engagement surveys, launch social events for the employees etc

I would agree with other posters, you have clearly had a very lucky experience with HR. In every experience I have ever had their sole job is to protect the employers interest from employees. Ensure there are no lawsuits, redundancy process if follow so there is no blowback. 

Maybe I am just cynical and grumpy though, if I had a company regularly putting out engagement surveys and launching social events it would just annoy me. I have always found that staff who want to be social (there have been a few companies I really liked my colleagues and got involved) will do so without being made to have forced fun. If you are relying on HR to organise it then that's a red flag to me.

Having worked at companies with HR and without HR I have found no correlation between the culture and if there is an HR.

The best and most enjoyable company I ever worked for had no HR, the one company I worked at and was miserable every second my division sat one bank of desks away from the HR team.