Transfer from wtw

Albermarle

artyboy said:

SouthCoastBoy said:

artyboy said:

I have done 2 transfers away from old occupational schemes, both administered by WTW. Both were done in cash due to the nature of the funds, and both were excruciatingly painful and slow. Masses of paperwork, extra risk flags that you don't get when moving from mainstream SIPP providers, and very slow getting from one step to the next.

Others will point out that WTW are just following the rules that the pension trustees have set, but frankly it's all the same to me in terms of the overall experience.

Anyway... best of luck!

Thanks, do you know how long you were out of the market for? I have 2 pensions at WTW as left the company and then went back three years later, so am thinking trying out transferring the smaller account first and see how it goes, but not sure if that is a good idea, as would have to go through the pain twice. Tbh, either way I'm not looking forward to it.

Can't remember time out of the market for the first one as it was about 9 years ago, but the recent one was close to 4 weeks. My mitigation strategy was to wait till there was a good 'transfer in' cashback offer from the SIPP platform I wanted to move to.

As it turns out, the market moved slightly in my favour, but that's just blind luck...

Normally with a cash transfer, you are only out of the market for a few days at most, even if the overall transfer process takes weeks. So are you saying you were actually out of the market for 4 weeks?
Although with WTW ( or similar outfits like Mercer) it would not surprise me.

artyboy

Albermarle said:

artyboy said:

SouthCoastBoy said:

artyboy said:

I have done 2 transfers away from old occupational schemes, both administered by WTW. Both were done in cash due to the nature of the funds, and both were excruciatingly painful and slow. Masses of paperwork, extra risk flags that you don't get when moving from mainstream SIPP providers, and very slow getting from one step to the next.

Others will point out that WTW are just following the rules that the pension trustees have set, but frankly it's all the same to me in terms of the overall experience.

Anyway... best of luck!

Thanks, do you know how long you were out of the market for? I have 2 pensions at WTW as left the company and then went back three years later, so am thinking trying out transferring the smaller account first and see how it goes, but not sure if that is a good idea, as would have to go through the pain twice. Tbh, either way I'm not looking forward to it.

Can't remember time out of the market for the first one as it was about 9 years ago, but the recent one was close to 4 weeks. My mitigation strategy was to wait till there was a good 'transfer in' cashback offer from the SIPP platform I wanted to move to.

As it turns out, the market moved slightly in my favour, but that's just blind luck...

Normally with a cash transfer, you are only out of the market for a few days at most, even if the overall transfer process takes weeks. So are you saying you were actually out of the market for 4 weeks?
Although with WTW ( or similar outfits like Mercer) it would not surprise me.

Yep, I'm certain. Not something I'll forget easily. After all the paperwork was completed, they encashed my funds and it sat in a holding cell with them for at least a couple of weeks - visible on the portal as "pre-transfer cash" or something like that. It then disappeared and spent over a week in the ether before it was visible and investible with my new provider.

Utterly awful - the only reason I let it go without further complaint was that I didn't actually lose out during that time...

SouthCoastBoy

artyboy said:

Albermarle said:

artyboy said:

SouthCoastBoy said:

artyboy said:

I have done 2 transfers away from old occupational schemes, both administered by WTW. Both were done in cash due to the nature of the funds, and both were excruciatingly painful and slow. Masses of paperwork, extra risk flags that you don't get when moving from mainstream SIPP providers, and very slow getting from one step to the next.

Others will point out that WTW are just following the rules that the pension trustees have set, but frankly it's all the same to me in terms of the overall experience.

Anyway... best of luck!

Thanks, do you know how long you were out of the market for? I have 2 pensions at WTW as left the company and then went back three years later, so am thinking trying out transferring the smaller account first and see how it goes, but not sure if that is a good idea, as would have to go through the pain twice. Tbh, either way I'm not looking forward to it.

Can't remember time out of the market for the first one as it was about 9 years ago, but the recent one was close to 4 weeks. My mitigation strategy was to wait till there was a good 'transfer in' cashback offer from the SIPP platform I wanted to move to.

As it turns out, the market moved slightly in my favour, but that's just blind luck...

Normally with a cash transfer, you are only out of the market for a few days at most, even if the overall transfer process takes weeks. So are you saying you were actually out of the market for 4 weeks?
Although with WTW ( or similar outfits like Mercer) it would not surprise me.

Yep, I'm certain. Not something I'll forget easily. After all the paperwork was completed, they encashed my funds and it sat in a holding cell with them for at least a couple of weeks - visible on the portal as "pre-transfer cash" or something like that. It then disappeared and spent over a week in the ether before it was visible and investible with my new provider.

Utterly awful - the only reason I let it go without further complaint was that I didn't actually lose out during that time...

That's my concern when I come to make the transfer, the pension is about 500k so would prefer not to be out of the market for longer than a couple of days, a lot can happen in a month!

artyboy

I know the settlement cycle for 'trad' funds is longer than ETFs, but that should literally be the extent of it. Sell, settle, same day xfr (I'd pay the CHAPS fee!) and into the new account before market close to be invested that day.

2/3/4 days out can still be a lifetime in volatile markets, but I'd take that over 4 weeks. But with WTW, you stick, or roll the dice...

SMerchant

WTW LifeSight transfer is stressful and testing.  They are incompetent and deliberately evasive to the extent that the Pension Ombudsman should fine them out of business if enough people complained!  Indeed, I consulted with the Government's MoneyHelper Pensionwise service on my experience and they confirmed that WTW have not provided the [legal ?] level of information (on 4 times of asking) in order to make an informed decision to transfer.  My transfer from another provider to Fidelity took 7 days!  So far I have spent 6 weeks trying to get a correct transfer quote from WTW!! 

 
My experience of WTW LifeSight transfer:-

1.      transferring because their membership charges are a poor proposition by comparison to mainstream SIPP providers like Fidelity

2.      Cant trust their Drawdown process – it seems to be over engineered and very expensive by comparison

3.      Telephone professionalism for a query I had from their online quote, was so shocking, to cut a long story short they claim the agent is no longer working for the company (apology)

4.      Quote had glaring errors in the written data (admitted)

5.      Indicated a risk of losing the  Protected Lump Sum, but give no figure or %  and no explanations! (done by design and obviously illegal).

6.      It got serious and I took to recording every call, but now had to go into writing.

7.      They have previously been slated by pension advisors and had judgements by the ombudsman against them

8.      Therefore, no confidence in any of their figures

9.      follow up chasing letters takes them days to turn around and responses still leave you short of what you asked

10. they avoid your new provider using the industry automated transfer systems
do all they can to slow you down, (too many avoidance techniques to list here).

11. My experience agrees with many reports on Trustpilot (score of 1.7 no surprise)

SouthCoastBoy

Sounds like I should initiate the transfer at least 6 mths before I need to start drawdown. I'm dreading going through the process. The good news is I don't think I will need  the pension for another 15 to 20 years, as I have a SIPP and ISAs which I will be using initially.

As I left and came back to the same company I have two pensions with WTW, so may try transferring the smaller pot first (only about 100k) to see how it goes.

eastcorkram

I'm not doing a transfer , but WTW are supposed to be paying me a PCLS, and starting to pay me a DB pension in December. The application has been with them since July.

I have a back up plan if that doesn't look like it's going to happen, of taking a TFLS from a SIPP with HL. 

Though they don't inspire me with confidence either. When I asked them how much notice I'd have to give, they just said , you don't need to give any notice . 

gm0

There isn't "one" WTW.  Never has been.  Never will be.  They do admin for lots of schemes on lots of contracts with different occupational trusts.  Some data good.  Some data horrible.  Often not their creation historically as scheme admin bounces around over 5 years or so - and it is what it is.   They used to admin my scheme.  And were deeply meh.  It's a merged outfit anyway - TowersPerrin etc. 

Service levels as requested by the trustees - often cost focused.  You get broadly the same with the other 3rd party admin outfits and with the life companies who also take them on.  There are no prizes or improved margins for doing it better.

As with most admin providers - script waving call centre staff are entirely disempowered, they don't know enough about all the individual scheme rules and membership dates that could call in - to be remotely definitive anyway.  And so are not allowed to do much.  Any real query of importance goes to a back office team with specialists - who should be doing transfers or more rarely access.  And that is nearly always at workflow/letter speed not chat or phone.  Too few staff. Too many members.  Most specialist teams are "off the phone". 

Some providers also put them off the phone to their own call centre people so you can't bully your way to a quicker than letter/workflow resolution.  Which is operationally sensible for them.  And rather frustrating for the customer - especially if you have already had "misunderstood the question" replies to a question.

Days/weeks. Life companies are similar if not quite as disorganised and low rent due to being flabbier about the cost base.

It is in my view madness to attempt a more complex transaction with such people (in specie) when trade and settlement and interbank transfer can be initiated within "one week" for a cash transfer.   Making a bigger problem to solve a smaller one.

Cash is the "common" transaction they are more familiar with.  In many (even most) cases occupational insured pension special funds and units are not on the target platform so the whole exercise of trying to request in specie is an exercise in futility and frustration - leading to a cash transfer - more slowly and later.  Check by all means.

For sure if you trigger a FCA risk criteria the workflow stages before the funds are sold can become (a lot) more painful.  They care more about the FCA risk reporting than they do about your customer experience.  This is unsurprising.  As you are not the customer.  The trustees are.  And one of their key requirements alongside cheap is
"by the book" with respect to the FCA.  As the trustees ultimately own the accountability.

Expecting genuine service focus and consumer focused behaviours is a fools errand.

cfw1994

SouthCoastBoy said:

artyboy said:

Albermarle said:

artyboy said:

SouthCoastBoy said:

artyboy said:

I have done 2 transfers away from old occupational schemes, both administered by WTW. Both were done in cash due to the nature of the funds, and both were excruciatingly painful and slow. Masses of paperwork, extra risk flags that you don't get when moving from mainstream SIPP providers, and very slow getting from one step to the next.

Others will point out that WTW are just following the rules that the pension trustees have set, but frankly it's all the same to me in terms of the overall experience.

Anyway... best of luck!

Thanks, do you know how long you were out of the market for? I have 2 pensions at WTW as left the company and then went back three years later, so am thinking trying out transferring the smaller account first and see how it goes, but not sure if that is a good idea, as would have to go through the pain twice. Tbh, either way I'm not looking forward to it.

Can't remember time out of the market for the first one as it was about 9 years ago, but the recent one was close to 4 weeks. My mitigation strategy was to wait till there was a good 'transfer in' cashback offer from the SIPP platform I wanted to move to.

As it turns out, the market moved slightly in my favour, but that's just blind luck...

Normally with a cash transfer, you are only out of the market for a few days at most, even if the overall transfer process takes weeks. So are you saying you were actually out of the market for 4 weeks?
Although with WTW ( or similar outfits like Mercer) it would not surprise me.

Yep, I'm certain. Not something I'll forget easily. After all the paperwork was completed, they encashed my funds and it sat in a holding cell with them for at least a couple of weeks - visible on the portal as "pre-transfer cash" or something like that. It then disappeared and spent over a week in the ether before it was visible and investible with my new provider.

Utterly awful - the only reason I let it go without further complaint was that I didn't actually lose out during that time...

That's my concern when I come to make the transfer, the pension is about 500k so would prefer not to be out of the market for longer than a couple of days, a lot can happen in a month!

Surely the best thing to do is realise that there are some things in life you cannot materially impact….so don’t stress about them.  Indeed, like the piece in bold, it could equally be to your advantage.

If you desperately want to flatten it out…could you not move the entire pot at wtw to cash (“money markets”), and move them into the same?  Surely that would mean it moves as £X and arrives as £X, no?