Drama Trivial commutation NHS Pensions

Nickysolarlilo

Nickysolarlilo said:

Thank you for contacting the members helpline on 16 April 2024 regarding trivial commutation.

 

 

I have asked for your award to be recalculated to consider your request to take your benefits as trivial commutation.

 

We do not issue dated timescales for the processing of a sub award due to the volume of awards we have to process and the complexities that can arise.

 

Giving a set timescale sets an expectation we may not be able to adhere to.

 

We advise your sub award will be calculated in due course and all pension that may be outstanding is back dated.

 

You will receive a retirement notice once this has finished processing.

 

We thank you for your patience

They emailed this.
 Reading comments it looks likely I have misunderstood the rules. I wonder I'd its possible to transfer it to a provider who does allow commutations

Tommyjw

Nickysolarlilo said:

Nickysolarlilo said:

Thank you for contacting the members helpline on 16 April 2024 regarding trivial commutation.

 

 

I have asked for your award to be recalculated to consider your request to take your benefits as trivial commutation.

 

We do not issue dated timescales for the processing of a sub award due to the volume of awards we have to process and the complexities that can arise.

 

Giving a set timescale sets an expectation we may not be able to adhere to.

 

We advise your sub award will be calculated in due course and all pension that may be outstanding is back dated.

 

You will receive a retirement notice once this has finished processing.

 

We thank you for your patience

They emailed this.
 Reading comments it looks likely I have misunderstood the rules. I wonder I'd its possible to transfer it to a provider who does allow commutations

Not now your cash has been paid and pension has kicked in , thats it now for life 

xylophone

The key is the value of ALL pension arrangements (barring State Pension).

See

https://www.gov.uk/hmrc-internal-manuals/pensions-tax-manual/ptm063500

What pension rights are measured against the commutation limit

Paragraphs 7(5), 8 and 9 schedule 29 Finance Act 2004

A payment cannot be a trivial commutation lump sum if the total value of the member’s pension rights on the nominated date is more than £30,000. 

The total value of the member’s pension rights is the value of all their rights under every type of arrangement under every registered pension scheme that they belong to.  This is the case even though not all types of pension rights can be commuted into a trivial commutation lump sum. 

The valuation of the member’s pension rights includes the individual’s benefit entitlements, past and present. This includes:

• pensions to which the member had become entitled before 6 April 2006
• all amounts crystallised previously in respect of that member since 6 April 2006
• uncrystallised rights. 

Silvertabby

Nickysolarlilo said:

Nickysolarlilo said:

Thank you for contacting the members helpline on 16 April 2024 regarding trivial commutation.

 

 

I have asked for your award to be recalculated to consider your request to take your benefits as trivial commutation.

 

We do not issue dated timescales for the processing of a sub award due to the volume of awards we have to process and the complexities that can arise.

 

Giving a set timescale sets an expectation we may not be able to adhere to.

 

We advise your sub award will be calculated in due course and all pension that may be outstanding is back dated.

 

You will receive a retirement notice once this has finished processing.

 

We thank you for your patience

They emailed this.
 Reading comments it looks likely I have misunderstood the rules. I wonder I'd its possible to transfer it to a provider who does allow commutations

No.  Even if you'd asked this question before taking these benefits, any transfer out would have been limited to another DB pension -  and so the same £30K rule would still apply.

Flugelhorn

It is a shame that they didn't alert @Nickysolarlilo that commutation was was not possible owing to the other pension and the £30K rule.  

Could have done with a letter saying "we can't offer that but we can offer this - do you actually want to take the 2008 now or wait until later?"

I know it is tough getting sense from NHS pensions, I once got given extra funds that put me over LTA - this was 18/12 after taking pension and being told that there was nothing else to come / no second bite etc all included etc. 

All the email responses were basically fob off standard phrases and paragraphs inappropriately chosen by people who didn't understand the issue, just wound me up even more!!!
 Eventually a splendid chap picked it up, explained the whole thing, gave me the figures and apologies for the automatic repliers. He also informed me they had put £3K in my bank account  definitely made my day as I hadn't looked 

Marcon

Flugelhorn said:

It is a shame that they didn't alert @Nickysolarlilo that commutation was was not possible owing to the other pension and the £30K rule.  

Without knowing exactly what sort of exchanges went on, we don't know that they didn't, or indeed whether OP asked the question. The title of this thread includes the word 'Drama' for a reason...

The information is on their website, but the chances of the average layman being able to navigate that must be close to zero!

Flugelhorn said:

Could have done with a letter saying "we can't offer that but we can offer this - do you actually want to take the 2008 now or wait until later?"

Which comes perilously close to crossing the lines between financial advice and information, so not a hope. 

xylophone

When the OP requested TC,  he had to complete an application form.   

In view of the rules around TC, do such forms do not have a question about any and all other (non state) pensions the applicant may have?

Even if not, surely in this case the Administrator would have been able to see that there were other NHS pension benefits?

Or perhaps the Admin officer did see that there were such benefits (and they were valued at £8000 or more) and so simply  awarded the

PCLS and the monthly pension without further explanation?

Or  the OP has no other pension arrangement and (this seems unlikely) the value of his 2015 benefits is indeed £8000 or less and there

has been a mistake?

Whatever the case, the service given by the Administrator seems somewhat lacking in clarity and efficiency. 

Flugelhorn

Marcon said:

Flugelhorn said:

It is a shame that they didn't alert @Nickysolarlilo that commutation was was not possible owing to the other pension and the £30K rule.  

Without knowing exactly what sort of exchanges went on, we don't know that they didn't, or indeed whether OP asked the question. The title of this thread includes the word 'Drama' for a reason...

The information is on their website, but the chances of the average layman being able to navigate that must be close to zero!

Flugelhorn said:

Could have done with a letter saying "we can't offer that but we can offer this - do you actually want to take the 2008 now or wait until later?"

Which comes perilously close to crossing the lines between financial advice and information, so not a hope. 

rather reminiscent of them send me the 2008 "choice" pack which I had to sign for - opened up and it said "we can't give you any info about your pension but you still have to decide what to do... phoned NHSBSA up, they told me I was one of 6% who they couldn't work anything out for  and so they basically gave me financial advice.. (along the lines of if are you planning to retire before or after 63? if before then 1995, if after then 2008) -

Nickysolarlilo

They were aware that I wanted a commutation before the AW8 form went in. It is a shame the administrator didn't pop an email to raise this with me.  Maybe it's all run on AI? 
Would have saved me making plans of what is so with the money only to have them dashed. The hassle of retire and return - having to redo mandatory training, arrange new bank contract, arrange new expenses account, etc. Not to mention what I've lost if I'd left that pension for another 10 years (when I plan to actually retire). 
I hope someone contemplating taking pension will read this and learn from my stupid mistake.