Withdrawal from SIPP.

tilllymse

Just curious.  What exactly does an advisor do to earn his fees?

dunstonh

tilllymse said:

Just curious.  What exactly does an advisor do to earn his fees?

With most clients they deal with, they will pretty much do everything: advising, planning, selecting, transacting, maintaining, and adjusting. When done correctly, you can effectively pass full control over to an adviser or be more selective if there are bits you want to do yourself.

wjr4

I’m so sorry this happened to you, make sure you keep the complaint going. There is absolutely no reason why they couldn’t have processed that by tax year end. I used to use Parmenion and it’s a very simple system, Parmenion wouldn’t have delayed it, it would have been the adviser not submitting the request on time. Every adviser knows the deadlines, there really is no excuse for them! As Dunston mentioned, get them to pay compensation for this and any tax due. Awful service! 

As for the ongoing fees, check your client agreement as this will list what you’re paying for. If you’re unsure, ask them as they will need to provide this information. Every company is different but the absolute minimum is confirmation that everything is suitable still. There’s a lot of lazy advisers out there still who don’t provide a good ongoing service, they will slowly get caught out by Consumer Duty. There are advisers who genuinely care and who would have gone over and above to make sure that income payment was paid in 2023/24 tax year! Keep us updated please. 

tilllymse

Thank you wjr4.

As I say, this is not the first time this has happened to me.  I had a face to face review in Feb 2020 and gave clear instructions that as I had retired slightly early, I wanted to take £2000+ tax free in that tax year (the difference between earnings and remaining allowances).  I also gave instructions that I wanted to take £12,500  tax free, (my allowance for 2020/21), just inside the new tax year of 2020. 

Wondering where my money was I started chasing him on 10/3/20.  He was on holiday.  I chased him again on 16th & 17th.  He replied by text that he could email me the forms and it would 'save a day', (this was the first I knew about having to 'sign' forms to release the funds, although it did not seem unreasonable....just late).  I remember killing myself to return the form realising even then that things didn't happen instantly.  I then sat back waiting on the money.

I received a text from him on 23/3/20 saying markets are still no better and 'advising' me not to take it as it would be too big a hit on the pension', (but hey ho), he was still watching the markets daily and we still had until the 5th April to do it if it rose again before then?  

I was absolutely furious and sent a text indicating that and asking to know why it had not already completed and that i felt compelled to follow his advice (on the basis that he was the supposed expert and I didn't know anything about it and lord knows I was paying a lot for his advice). and questioning his 'advice' that it could be done instantly up to 5/4/21?  (I did not feel that £2000+ was going to impact my pension that much as I had not withdrawn anything up to that point other than my initial tax free allowance and other than tax free allowances, had no intention of doing so).

I suspected then that something was not right and I also suspected he had left it too late to act on my instructions.

He did not respond to me.  At all.  Until a year later.  However, in the meantime, I had made a call to the company.

This company, along with many others, record their telephone calls.  How long do they keep them for and does anybody know if I can I get a transcript of a call please?

wjr4

tilllymse said:

Thank you wjr4.

As I say, this is not the first time this has happened to me.  I had a face to face review in Feb 2020 and gave clear instructions that as I had retired slightly early, I wanted to take £2000+ tax free in that tax year (the difference between earnings and remaining allowances).  I also gave instructions that I wanted to take £12,500  tax free, (my allowance for 2021), just inside the new tax year of 2021. 

Wondering where my money was I started chasing him on 10/3/20.  He was on holiday.  I chased him again on 16th & 17th.  He replied by text that he could email me the forms and it would 'save a day', (this was the first I knew about having to 'sign' forms to release the funds, although it did not seem unreasonable....just late).  I remember killing myself to return the form realising even then that things didn't happen instantly.  I then sat back waiting on the money.

I received a text from him on 23/3/20 saying markets are still no better and 'advising' me not to take it as it would be too big a hit on the pension', (but hey ho), he was still watching the markets daily and we still had until the 5th April to do it if it rose again before then?  

I was absolutely furious and sent a text indicating that and asking to know why it had not already completed and that i felt compelled to follow his advice (on the basis that he was the supposed expert and I didn't know anything about it and lord knows I was paying a lot for his advice). and questioning his 'advice' that it could be done instantly up to 5/4/21?  (I did not feel that £2000+ was going to impact my pension that much as I had not withdrawn anything up to that point other than my initial tax free allowance and other than tax free allowances, had no intention of doing so).

I suspected then that something was not right and I also suspected he had left it too late to act on my instructions.

He did not respond to me.  At all.  Until a year later.  However, in the meantime, I had made a call to the company.

This company, along with many others, record their telephone calls.  How long do they keep them for and does anybody know if I can I get a transcript of a call please?

I’d make a complaint for that as well if I were you. I’m unsure re how long they keep call records for though. I’d also leave them a bad review to warn others in the future. Sounds like your adviser is useless and very unprofessional. 

tilllymse

I phoned the company in May 2020 and complained that I was unhappy with my advisor and that I did not want him as my advisor anymore.  I was so unhappy, I also discussed moving my account to another firm and asked if there would be a fee.  I was told no. I had thought I was making a complaint but was surprised not to hear back from them.  As I also didn't hear further from my advisor for another year, I thought they had taken my complaint on board.  It also said that I had 'cancelled' the withdrawal request for the £2000+, during this phone call, although in actual fact that boat had sailed and it was too late for that tax free amount.  In actual fact I had cancelled the further request for the tax free amount (£12,500) in the new tax year 2020 as I seriously wanted to leave the company.

As it happens, I didn't transfer my monies because I had totally lost my confidence and thought if I could get it so badly wrong the first time, why did I think I would get it right the 2nd time.  Also, sadly other things were occurring then, ie Covid which meant I would be unable to meet any other potential advisors face to face anyway.  I let things drift because I honestly didn't know what to do.  I guess that was my mistake.

When I saw my 'new' advisor on 14th March this year, I went through what had happened because he was obviously confused as to why I refused to speak with my previous advisor and he asked if I wanted to raise a complaint.  Although I had (as I thought) complained in May 2020 and because there had been no feedback, I was happy to complain again through him although this was not easy as I was aware that they were colleagues. 

The company sent me a letter in response to this complaint within days, (actually 6}.  I found the tone and content of the letter astonishing, not least that they said this letter 'represents our final response' (as if conversations had taken place) and told (invited) me to take it to the ombudsman!

There were several things alleged, including 'that a 'review' took place on 20th March 2020 after which a report was issued featuring a recommendation for a £2.250 withdrawal. Although a signed action plan was never received'!  This was after I had received and returned the signed forms on 18th March 2020 and I was waiting for the money to appear in my account?  I had NO contact with him on this supposed 'review' date, (unless they have mistyped March for February)?

It also states that my complaint (to my new advisor) was based on the fact that I had, had no 'reviews' and had no contact with a financial advisor since my call to them?  At this point, I wondered if my new advisor and I had been talking a different language?

However, it did NOT say that I had complained about my (then) advisor, stating I did not want him to represent me anymore, NOR did it say that I had talked about moving my account and asked about 'exit' fees.
 
So I complained twice.  The first time (May 2020) I received no response, the second time (14/3/24) I was shot down.  I fully expect the current ongoing complaint to produce a similar response.  

I realised when I was backchecking reports in 2023 that my first advisor was still claiming the full fees for face to face reviews??  Since I have had no contact whatsoever with this advisor since my text message to him on 23/3/20 saying I was not happy, I find this morally wrong.

Thank you for reading and I hope it makes sense.

dunstonh

The company sent me a letter in response to this complaint within days, (actually 6}.  I found the tone and content of the letter astonishing, not least that they said this letter 'represents our final response' (as if conversations had taken place) and told (invited) me to take it to the ombudsman!

That wording has to be used in their final response.  It is what allows you to refer it to the FOS beyond that point.   The complaints process is regulated and certain wording in the responses is there for regulatory reasons and that is one of them.

You seem to be extremely unlucky with this firm.   Is it a small local firm or a national/regional firm?    You generally find the service improves with smaller firms and tends to be less personal with larger ones.      Yours sounds more salesforce rather than local.

wjr4

dunstonh said:

The company sent me a letter in response to this complaint within days, (actually 6}.  I found the tone and content of the letter astonishing, not least that they said this letter 'represents our final response' (as if conversations had taken place) and told (invited) me to take it to the ombudsman!

That wording has to be used in their final response.  It is what allows you to refer it to the FOS beyond that point.   The complaints process is regulated and certain wording in the responses is there for regulatory reasons and that is one of them.

You seem to be extremely unlucky with this firm.   Is it a small local firm or a national/regional firm?    You generally find the service improves with smaller firms and tends to be less personal with larger ones.      Yours sounds more salesforce rather than local.

I’m also wondering if it’s a large company as surely these issues don’t happen at smaller ones. I’ve never had an issue like that in my career so far and would always go above and beyond for every client. I can’t believe these advisers are still out there & clearly have an awful admin team! 

tilllymse

wjr4 said:

I’m also wondering if it’s a large company.

Yes. they have several offices across the country.

tilllymse

Hi,

So I finally received a response from them on11th June, saying they needed extra time to respond and set a further estimate of another 4 weeks.  Which I am pretty sure is their way of dragging the complaint out, especially as when they did send a response last week, it didn't appear to contain anything that should have taken any time.

They are basically implying that I did not give them enough time to process the request.

The cut off date was 20th March 2023.  They didn't even forward the request to the company who held my shares until 26th March 2023, electronically, but didn't even inform me of this situation?

The drawdown took me into the 40% tax bracket resulting in a large tax deduction.  It also messed up my pensions totally and would have resulted in paying 40% tax on my income for the whole of this year.  I had absolutely no choice but to reverse the whole drawdown. Fortunately the company who holds my pension shares completely reversed the transaction for me, initially saying there would be a charge but then finding a way to do it with no charge.  They were really helpful.

It took until 19th March for my advisor to pass the request to the administration team, could anybody tell me what the advisor had to do in the days before my instruction was passed to the administration team and what the administration team had to do in the 8 inclusive days before they passed the instruction to the company holding my shares?

I am also curious to know what will/can the FOC do with my complaints?  Especially as the company have said the reversal has put me back into the same position I was in before the drawdown.

I do intend reply to their 'findings' and to request transcripts of the telephone calls I made on 8th & 11th March, but given I never heard back from my request for a telephone transcript relating to my first (concurrent) complaint, I am not hopeful.  Do they have to provide these if I request them?