Why is "check my pension" so slow to update and so useless?

ProDave

My situation, self employed for the last 20 years, full time employed before that, full NI record, on line to receive SP of £203.85 per week.  All good so far.  BUT.....

In order to get that full pension I need to contribute 2 more years.  This ought to be in hand, but it appears not.

Tax year 2022/23 is showing year is not full we are checking to see.......

Now that year my SE profit fell below the level of having to pay NI, but I opted to pay voluntary class 2 NI.  If is nearly 3 months since I paid that, and the system just does not seem to update.  And there are other threads about the system getting stuck and not updating.

The current tax year 2023/24 will be the same, low SE profit so I intend to again pay voluntary class 2 NI.

I am sure I am right that doing that in both these tax years should get me a full NI credit for state pension purposes and that will give me my 2 required years for full pension.  If that is not the case then someone please advise me what I need to do.

The frustrating thing is not being able to find out exactly what is going on.  I tried phoning the help line and lost the will to live, I never found out how to get to speak to a person, I just went down various avenues suggesting I check on line  (bangs head against brick wall)

The issue for me is I want to stop work after the end of this tax year, but first want to be SURE my low self employed profit plus voluntary class 2 NI will actually get me state pension NI credit.  Why do they make the system so complicated to find out something so simple?

Brie

Keep a record of what you pay and when just in case the system gets "stuck" again.

How long til retirement age?  If it's a few years there shouldn't be any reason to panic.  Be frustrated, well, yes I get that.  Everything else is instantaneous so we expect this to be as well.

ProDave

Another 6 years before SP age, but I don't want to spend that 6 years wondering will I / Won't I get full SP.

Has anyone had any success navigating the help line and actually getting to speak to a person?  if so please share the magic combination of menu answers to get there as I have not yet found it.

I don't understand why it has suddenly got like this.  It always used to update almost immediately.  I can't believe there is that much more demand on the system all of a sudden, it just seems more like a broken system.

molerat

How low are your profits ?   Are they so low,below £6275, that you need to pay voluntary class 2 rather than them be awarded at no cost ?

ProDave

molerat said:

How low are your profits ?   Are they so low,below £6275, that you need to pay voluntary class 2 rather than them be awarded at no cost ?

2022/23 profit was just over £6000 so I ticked the box to pay voluntaty class 2 NI

2023/24 it is likely to be about £3000 (and am winding the business down intending as I say to stop altogether soon)

I don't mind paying voluntary class 2 NI, what I do mind is if having paid that I still don't get the NI credit for pension purposes for that year.

Both years I have had other income from rental property (that has now finished as well) but that is not treated as earned income.  And 2023/4 has had more pension income, again not treated as earned income.

All the different thresholds are very confusing and I can never find any clear information.  When submitting your tax return at the end when it calculates what you must pay, it just gave me a tax figure, no NI.  The box to voluntary pay class 2 suggested you need to do that to get pension credits for the year.

Wouldn't it be nice if that page of the tax return actually gave all the information in one place, how much you need, or don't need to pay.  Oh it would be so easy with all the information.  Why do they make it so hard?

scobie

I can’t advise specifically but I find that if you ever want to call any department - especially anything tax or pensions related, it’s worth getting on the phone as soon as they open. I think it’s 8am but someone will clarify. 

ProDave

Just posting an update on this, as I appear to be getting nowhere.

After an hour on the phone I did eventually get to speak to someone at the pension help line.  they looked up my details and said HMRC had not reported to them what contributions I have made for 2022/3, the year that is stubbornly showing as "year is incomplete, we are checking...."  They suggested i speak to hmrc.

The other day I spent an hour and a half on hold trying to speak to someone at hmrc before I ran out of time and had to give up.  I have not summoned the will to try again.

The system is well and truly broken whereby you cannot even find out what is going on and when it will be resolved.

The reason this is worrying me, is this week we checked my wife's state pension position.  She is okay, without any more contributions she will get the full state pension. Unlike me she was never contracted out.  But looking through her NI record, she has 3 years showing as "not complete" with the standard message we are checking this and will update.....      BUT 2 of those incomplete years are 10 years ago.  This is filling me with dismay that once a year gets stuck with the "we are checking" message, the chances of it resolving itself appear to be close to zero.

As i say I believe the system is well and truly broken and I don't see how I am going to resolve this.

ProDave

Okay, a further update to this.

I finally got through on the hmrc help line this morning after only 25 minutes wait.

It appears my voluntary class 2 payment has been wrongly allocated, so they have actioned it to be "re allocated"  hopefully this will solve the problem.

The big clue is on my on line self assesment page, the "tax year overview" was showing just one amount paid as "tax" without breaking it down into tax and NI.  The only way I could see any mention of NI payment was to drill down further in the menus to "view and print full calculation" where it was itemised as tax and NI.

So it was my supposition that with in only showing the whole lot as "tax" this is what the pension record would show, hence they think I have not paid any NI in that year.  They agreed this is what appears to have happened.

I now have to wait an unspecified time for this re allocation to ripple through the system.

BooJewels

My situation is almost the same @ProDave - I was coming here to see if any others were suffering similar. I'm self employed (also winding down) and did my return last November and ticked to pay Class 2 voluntarily and a couple of days later when it was accepted and they asked for the payment, did so.  Yet my NI for 22/23 hasn't been updated and the payment itself shows as 'Not yet allocated'.  It had been showing as overpaid tax and that I could apply for a refund - but the tax is now showing as £0 and the £163.80 NI as unallocated - so I suppose that's some sort of progress.  I'm 3+ years off SP with 2 years NI short (at least after this one is allocated) - I was aiming to do 24/25 shortly as I have the info almost ready for the return - so I'd need one more after that.

I spoke to someone a few weeks ago and they said they'd send through an internal message to ensure that my NI was properly credited, but nothing much has changed.  It's been over 20 weeks since I made payment - I was hoping that it might get sorted at the end of the tax year, but the NI information 'isn't available' at the moment in my gateway.

It had been ticking along nicely for a few years where I was below the threshold for filing a return, but they sent me a bill each October to voluntarily pay NI.  Then I got a letter saying I was being fined for not submitting a return that I'd not been asked to do and the chap on the on-line chat I asked about it managed to delete my business - thereby creating a whole world of mess for me.  I couldn't now submit a return without a 'source' of income - it's taken a lot of hours on the phone trying to sort that little gem out.

I wish you luck and hope it gets sorted for you soon.

ProDave

I did eventually get through to someone on the hmrc helpline.  About an hour waiting on hold (and they are talking of shutting the helpline for 6 months of the year !!!!!!)  They told me my NI payment had been wrongly allocated and they were going to reallocate it.

A few weeks passed and nothing has happened, so I tried again, this time with the on line chat.  Once I got passed the chat robot and then waited nearly an hour to chat online with a real person on line, I was told the same thing, it is in the system to be re allocated and I will be notified when that has been done.

The system is well and truly broken at the moment.  Why did an NI payment get wrongly allocated as "tax" making the pension side of things look like I did not contribute?  Why is it taking to long to reallocate it?

I do hope I don't have to go through this again when I submit my 2023/4 return and pay my due tax and voluntary class 2 NI shortly.

Still waiting for it to be resolved, I will post here when it finally is so others know how long it is taking.

What a complete shambles.

molerat

https://www.gov.uk/government/organisations/hm-revenue-customs/contact/complain-about-hmrc

https://www.parliament.uk/get-involved/contact-an-mp-or-lord/contact-your-mp/

The latter often has a miraculous effect.  Senior managers don't like getting dragged up in front of parliamentary committees.