State pension increase fairness

Eldi_Dos

zagfles said:

Eldi_Dos said:

zagfles said:

Eldi_Dos said:

zagfles said:

Eldi_Dos said:

zagfles said:

SouthCoastBoy said:

Eldi_Dos said:

Silversence's proposal is going to gain ground as time goes on as the differential between the groups grows there will be pressure on politicians to address it.
I have no proof but feel more women than men are going to feel disadvantaged by present arrangement.

As time goes on there will be less people on the old state pension, eventually there will be nobody.

There are also a number of people getting more than the basic state pension under the old system.

Virtually everyone on the old pre 2016 system gets more than the basic state pension, either through SERPS/S2P or a contracted out occupational pension. Main exception is the self employed.

While that is true for myself and I am sure many others on this board I believe there will large swathes of pensioners for whom it is not their reality.
They see it as a raise in pounds and pence and compare it as so, hence the sense of grievance felt.

Like who? 

The group,mainly women,who worked a few years then gave up work to raise a family and when it came time to go back to work found that carers responsibilities interfered with the employment they could take on and looked mainly for part time work fit round that.This led to many having a lower pension when reaching pension age.

Post 2002 carers were treated exactly the same as employees earning at the low earnings threshold and would have built S2P. Those in part time work earning at least the LEL (£123 in today's terms) would accrue S2P. Under the old rules women could get a state pension based on husband's contributions and inherit SERPS/S2P.

There are not "large swathes" of people who get zero above the basic state pension, other than the self employed. There will be a few in niche circumstances.

Pre 2002 covers quite a big area for people who have been in receipt of the pension for a while, so maybe not as niche as you suggest.

Only the first sentence applies to post 2002. Read the rest. Anyone who ever had paid employment after 1978 earning above the LEL (about £6400 a year in today's terms) would have accrued some SERPS/S2P. 
Instead of me constantly rabbitting the rules and you trying to pick holes in them, perhaps you could explain who these "large swathes" are. Maybe give a concrete example of circumstances that would apply to a "large swathe" of people. Self employed I've already stated as an exception. 

The group I mentioned in reply to your Like who? query.
Anyway I am bailing out now as I seem to have touched a nerve ,may be I should have realised that empathy does not appear much in spreadsheets.

zagfles

Eldi_Dos said:

zagfles said:

Eldi_Dos said:

zagfles said:

Eldi_Dos said:

zagfles said:

Eldi_Dos said:

zagfles said:

SouthCoastBoy said:

Eldi_Dos said:

Silversence's proposal is going to gain ground as time goes on as the differential between the groups grows there will be pressure on politicians to address it.
I have no proof but feel more women than men are going to feel disadvantaged by present arrangement.

As time goes on there will be less people on the old state pension, eventually there will be nobody.

There are also a number of people getting more than the basic state pension under the old system.

Virtually everyone on the old pre 2016 system gets more than the basic state pension, either through SERPS/S2P or a contracted out occupational pension. Main exception is the self employed.

While that is true for myself and I am sure many others on this board I believe there will large swathes of pensioners for whom it is not their reality.
They see it as a raise in pounds and pence and compare it as so, hence the sense of grievance felt.

Like who? 

The group,mainly women,who worked a few years then gave up work to raise a family and when it came time to go back to work found that carers responsibilities interfered with the employment they could take on and looked mainly for part time work fit round that.This led to many having a lower pension when reaching pension age.

Post 2002 carers were treated exactly the same as employees earning at the low earnings threshold and would have built S2P. Those in part time work earning at least the LEL (£123 in today's terms) would accrue S2P. Under the old rules women could get a state pension based on husband's contributions and inherit SERPS/S2P.

There are not "large swathes" of people who get zero above the basic state pension, other than the self employed. There will be a few in niche circumstances.

Pre 2002 covers quite a big area for people who have been in receipt of the pension for a while, so maybe not as niche as you suggest.

Only the first sentence applies to post 2002. Read the rest. Anyone who ever had paid employment after 1978 earning above the LEL (about £6400 a year in today's terms) would have accrued some SERPS/S2P. 
Instead of me constantly rabbitting the rules and you trying to pick holes in them, perhaps you could explain who these "large swathes" are. Maybe give a concrete example of circumstances that would apply to a "large swathe" of people. Self employed I've already stated as an exception. 

The group I mentioned in reply to your Like who? query.

I already replied to that with 3 ways in which the group you identified would get some SERPS/S2P. There will be some to whom none of the 3 are applicable, but it won't be "large swathes". 

Anyway I am bailing out now as I seem to have touched a nerve ,may be I should have realised that empathy does not appear much in spreadsheets.

Oh I am sorry for pointing out how perceived grievances some people have of behalf of others may not be valid. How un-empathetic of me. But I don't think you can blame spreadsheets, I didn't use one. Next time I'll just nod and say "how terrible" instead of discussing facts and rules. Will that make me a better person? 

QrizB

It was probably mentioned earlier in the thread, also, that most of those over SPA whose total income is less than the NSP by more than a few pence a week will be eligible for Pension Credit, which tops them up to almost a full NSP.