Facing redundancy AGAIN! Employment law queries.

stuey_aka_poppa

Edited now to avoid confusion

Position redundant at Site A july 31st 2020,

Phone call 11 days into August 2020 to go back to same employer.

Rehired on new contract addressed at site B despite sitting at my original desk doing the same role at site A. Start date 1st September 2020, been in their employment since.

Now I am facing redundancy again due to a downturn in work at site A I'm working at, this poses a few questions obviously.

There are 3 people facing redundancy at site A, can I be counted as site A employee if my contract is working for site B at site A?

As I only had 4 weeks between being made redundant and starting the new position with same company, would it be considered continuous service? Making it 11 years service instead of 3...

I got an enhanced redundancy pay out July 2020 and was allowed to keep it despite going back to work for same company. I did query this.

My contract address and address at the top of my payslips is site B

I posed the questions to the HR Manager yesterday but I've had no reply, she works at site B.

Anyone with workplace law experience is much appreciated.

Added: I was fully paid my 12 weeks notice, which I wasn't asked to work, so my notice period from end of july would be till end of october. although on my newest contract it states below:

Your employment and continuous employment with the Company commenced on 01 September 2020 No period of employment with any other company or employer counts towards your period of continuous employment with the Company.

Undervalued

stuey_aka_poppa said:

Position redundant at Site A july 31st 2020,

Phone call 11 days into August 2020 to go back to same employer.

Rehired on new contract addressed at site B despite sitting at my original desk doing the same role at site A. Start date 1st September 2020, been in their employment since.

Now I am facing redundancy again due to a downturn in work at site A I'm working at, this poses a few questions obviously.

There are 3 people facing redundancy at site A, can I be counted as site A employee if my contract is working for site B at site A?

As I only had roughly 3 weeks between being made redundant and starting the new position with same company, would it be considered continuous service? Making it 11 years service instead of 3...

I got an enhanced redundancy pay out July 2020 and was allowed to keep it despite going back to work for same company. I did query this.

My contract address and address at the top of my payslips is site B

I posed the questions to the HR Manager yesterday but I've had no reply, she works at site B.

Anyone with workplace law experience is much appreciated.

Unlikely I'm afraid. Normally only a break of 1 week is needed for it to be new employment.

"Enhanced" redundancy is, in effect, a mutually agreed settlement so whatever terms you agreed apply. Although you say you queried keeping it, the firm was under no obligation to change the agreement once signed.

You don't say how "enhanced" it was but unless nominal it is hard to see that you are out of pocket overall given that you would, presumably, be made redundant now either way.

400ixl

From what I understand, 1 week break is enough to mean there is no continuation of service unless there is an exception. An exception could be for example that you signed up to a new contract before your redundancy took effect.

Given there is 1 month between contracts (not sure where you got 3 (Redundant 31st July - Start 1st September).

You also got to keep the redundancy payment.

Can't fully answer on the site question, although they can pool people doing the same role together, so if everyone doing the same role contracted for services across site A and site B is in the pool then this is likely legal. Likewise if the pool is made up of all people doing the same role based at site A then that would also likely be legal.

If they have selected people working for site A wherever their location + people in site A regardless of which site they work for, but not people working for site B and based at site B then you may have an argument that you shouldn't be in the pool.

In summary, I don't think you have a continuous service claim, but could have a pool claim depending on the criteria they have used for selection.

stuey_aka_poppa

400ixl said:

From what I understand, 1 week break is enough to mean there is no continuation of service unless there is an exception. An exception could be for example that you signed up to a new contract before your redundancy took effect.

Given there is 1 month between contracts (not sure where you got 3 (Redundant 31st July - Start 1st September).

You also got to keep the redundancy payment.

Can't fully answer on the site question, although they can pool people doing the same role together, so if everyone doing the same role contracted for services across site A and site B is in the pool then this is likely legal. Likewise if the pool is made up of all people doing the same role based at site A then that would also likely be legal.

If they have selected people working for site A wherever their location + people in site A regardless of which site they work for, but not people working for site B and based at site B then you may have an argument that you shouldn't be in the pool.

In summary, I don't think you have a continuous service claim, but could have a pool claim depending on the criteria they have used for selection.

sorry for the confusion, three weeks from receiving phone call for rehire to start date, but yes a month between position redundant to taking new contract.

we have a pool of field based at site B and bench based at site A, i am field based in title only but work at site A, i mentioned if i am still facing redundancy regardless of where my contract is then the feild based site B should also be included.

My role came along (2020) because a field based employee from site B left, so it was a kind of loophole to get me back i suppose, they had a position to fill.

looks like i've missed out by a day

If an employee is made redundant and is due to start another job (under a new employment contract) with the same employer then continuity of employment will be preserved so long as they start their new job within four weeks of the effective date of termination of their previous employment contract.

stuey_aka_poppa

i also got paid for my notice period which under this and last contract was 12 weeks.

General_Grant

stuey_aka_poppa said:

400ixl said:

From what I understand, 1 week break is enough to mean there is no continuation of service unless there is an exception. An exception could be for example that you signed up to a new contract before your redundancy took effect.

Given there is 1 month between contracts (not sure where you got 3 (Redundant 31st July - Start 1st September).

You also got to keep the redundancy payment.

Can't fully answer on the site question, although they can pool people doing the same role together, so if everyone doing the same role contracted for services across site A and site B is in the pool then this is likely legal. Likewise if the pool is made up of all people doing the same role based at site A then that would also likely be legal.

If they have selected people working for site A wherever their location + people in site A regardless of which site they work for, but not people working for site B and based at site B then you may have an argument that you shouldn't be in the pool.

In summary, I don't think you have a continuous service claim, but could have a pool claim depending on the criteria they have used for selection.

sorry for the confusion, three weeks from receiving phone call for rehire to start date, but yes a month between position redundant to taking new contract.

we have a pool of field based at site B and bench based at site A, i am field based in title only but work at site A, i mentioned if i am still facing redundancy regardless of where my contract is then the feild based site B should also be included.

My role came along (2020) because a field based employee from site B left, so it was a kind of loophole to get me back i suppose, they had a position to fill.

looks like i've missed out by a day

If an employee is made redundant and is due to start another job (under a new employment contract) with the same employer then continuity of employment will be preserved so long as they start their new job within four weeks of the effective date of termination of their previous employment contract.

Where have you found the text I have put into bold?

silvercar

General_Grant said:

stuey_aka_poppa said:

400ixl said:

From what I understand, 1 week break is enough to mean there is no continuation of service unless there is an exception. An exception could be for example that you signed up to a new contract before your redundancy took effect.

Given there is 1 month between contracts (not sure where you got 3 (Redundant 31st July - Start 1st September).

You also got to keep the redundancy payment.

Can't fully answer on the site question, although they can pool people doing the same role together, so if everyone doing the same role contracted for services across site A and site B is in the pool then this is likely legal. Likewise if the pool is made up of all people doing the same role based at site A then that would also likely be legal.

If they have selected people working for site A wherever their location + people in site A regardless of which site they work for, but not people working for site B and based at site B then you may have an argument that you shouldn't be in the pool.

In summary, I don't think you have a continuous service claim, but could have a pool claim depending on the criteria they have used for selection.

sorry for the confusion, three weeks from receiving phone call for rehire to start date, but yes a month between position redundant to taking new contract.

we have a pool of field based at site B and bench based at site A, i am field based in title only but work at site A, i mentioned if i am still facing redundancy regardless of where my contract is then the feild based site B should also be included.

My role came along (2020) because a field based employee from site B left, so it was a kind of loophole to get me back i suppose, they had a position to fill.

looks like i've missed out by a day

If an employee is made redundant and is due to start another job (under a new employment contract) with the same employer then continuity of employment will be preserved so long as they start their new job within four weeks of the effective date of termination of their previous employment contract.

Where have you found the text I have put into bold?

https://neu.org.uk/advice/your-rights-work/contracts/ending-employment/redundancy/four-week-rule-and-redundancy

Hoenir

While you say you've missed out by a day. Given the previous payout you received. Which was your full legal entitlement plus more. What do you feel you are missing out on now monetary wise?  As the Company appears to have correctly applied the rules equitably. 

General_Grant

silvercar said:

General_Grant said:

stuey_aka_poppa said:

400ixl said:

From what I understand, 1 week break is enough to mean there is no continuation of service unless there is an exception. An exception could be for example that you signed up to a new contract before your redundancy took effect.

Given there is 1 month between contracts (not sure where you got 3 (Redundant 31st July - Start 1st September).

You also got to keep the redundancy payment.

Can't fully answer on the site question, although they can pool people doing the same role together, so if everyone doing the same role contracted for services across site A and site B is in the pool then this is likely legal. Likewise if the pool is made up of all people doing the same role based at site A then that would also likely be legal.

If they have selected people working for site A wherever their location + people in site A regardless of which site they work for, but not people working for site B and based at site B then you may have an argument that you shouldn't be in the pool.

In summary, I don't think you have a continuous service claim, but could have a pool claim depending on the criteria they have used for selection.

sorry for the confusion, three weeks from receiving phone call for rehire to start date, but yes a month between position redundant to taking new contract.

we have a pool of field based at site B and bench based at site A, i am field based in title only but work at site A, i mentioned if i am still facing redundancy regardless of where my contract is then the feild based site B should also be included.

My role came along (2020) because a field based employee from site B left, so it was a kind of loophole to get me back i suppose, they had a position to fill.

looks like i've missed out by a day

If an employee is made redundant and is due to start another job (under a new employment contract) with the same employer then continuity of employment will be preserved so long as they start their new job within four weeks of the effective date of termination of their previous employment contract.

Where have you found the text I have put into bold?

https://neu.org.uk/advice/your-rights-work/contracts/ending-employment/redundancy/four-week-rule-and-redundancy

I'm not sure that I'd believe everything written on that website.  For example, in relation to how much notice would need to be given it says, "If your contract is silent on the point, you will be required to provide the statutory minimum notice, e.g. if you have five years of continuous service, you will be required to give five weeks’ notice."  That is not correct (unless teachers have different notice periods applied by law which I don't think is the case).  The law (= statutory) is that without contractual requirement for longer notice, an employee never needs to give more than one week's notice.  It doesn't increase with increasing length of service, only the notice that is due from an employer increases in that way.

silvercar

A friend worked in admin for a large solicitor’s office. She was let go and then they changed their minds and offered her a different role, but they insisted on a months gap to avoid continuity of service, so it’s definitely something I have heard of before.