Aviva master trust - unqualified right of access

HCIMbtw

Hi there,

I'm trying to get my head around rights to access my pension for the sake of long term planning.

I'm 36. I have a reasonable chunk in an old employers pension scheme which is set up as an Aviva master trust, I was a member of my corporate scheme since 2012 and this new trust/structure got created in about 2016.

I got in touch with the colleague who ran out pension about unqualified right to access and was told there was protected access at 55 years of age.

I got in touch with Aviva today and they said some participants have a protected age of access, but not me because I am too young. They said in 2028 because of the rule changes your unqualified right to access will be 57 and likely go up.

I think I've assume the unqualified right meant I had some protection, but the unqualified right is actually just the standard legal age of access for all pensions?

Given I was part of this pension long before pre 2021 is there anything I can do (TransferWise) to protect my age of access to the pot at 55?

I struggle to get absolute clarity on this from any party and am unsure where to look for clarity.

xylophone

https://www.gov.uk/hmrc-internal-manuals/pensions-tax-manual/ptm062215#:~:text=2028 protected pension age,-Paragraph 23ZB schedule&text=The normal minimum pension age,take benefits before age 57.

HCIMbtw

This is where I get confused though xylophone

On the eligibility points guidance is:

Eligibility requirements

For a member to have a protected pension age under the scheme, all the following conditions must be met:

• before 4 November 2021 the member had the right to take a pension or lump sum, or both, before they reached age 57
• that right was unqualified, in that the member doesn’t need anyone’s consent to take their benefits. PTM062210 explains more about what is meant by an unqualified right
• on 11 February 2021 the scheme rules included provision to pay benefits before age 57.

When I enquired in 2020 in the company about the upcoming rules changes I was told provisions in the pension were that age would be protected within the trust structure.

Now I speak directly with Aviva and it sounds like I'd meet the first two points with this pot, but they are saying because it is an Aviva master trust the rules will change in 2028...

From that I can assume the third bullet point wasn't included in the trust provisions, but really I want clarity. Am I best to ask for a copy of the provisions from 2020?

xylophone

Here is Aviva's own guidance.

https://www.aviva.co.uk/retirement/pension-basics/changes-to-pension-age/

You could write to Aviva so as to get a definitive answer in writing.

HCIMbtw

xylophone said:

Here is Aviva's own guidance.

https://www.aviva.co.uk/retirement/pension-basics/changes-to-pension-age/

You could write to Aviva so as to get a definitive answer in writing.

Think I might have to, I've spoken to two people there already.. one said my account doesn't have protected age because I'm to young (which doesn't make any sense given the regs and rules)

The other said the scheme is a master trust and the terms will be changing in 2028

No clear rationale on the reason for either response and by the wording of the guidance I should be eligible

dunstonh

Think I might have to, I've spoken to two people there already.. one said my account doesn't have protected age because I'm to young (which doesn't make any sense given the regs and rules)

There are two definitions of protected age.  That was the term used for when the age increased from 50 to 55.  Those with a protected age could keep 50.  You would certainly be too young for that one as that was in 2006.   Unfortunately, the same phrase has been used for 55/57.

For aviva, the following plans have a protected age (policy number starts with):

TKxxxxxxxx or SPxxxxxxxx

AVxxxxxxx

TLxxxxxxxx

PP44xxxxxx, Pxxxxxxxx

SMxxxxxxxx or SQxxxxxxxx

PW56 or PW59

The following plans do not have a protected age:

GSxxxxxxx

Fxxxxx/xxxxx

What is interesting there is that those that do are all on the CGNU side.   The other two are FP.     Unfortunately, they haven't covered all the plans yet.  Possibly as they do not know yet as it all comes down to contract wording.

HCIMbtw

dunstonh said:

Think I might have to, I've spoken to two people there already.. one said my account doesn't have protected age because I'm to young (which doesn't make any sense given the regs and rules)

There are two definitions of protected age.  That was the term used for when the age increased from 50 to 55.  Those with a protected age could keep 50.  You would certainly be too young for that one as that was in 2006.   Unfortunately, the same phrase has been used for 55/57.

For aviva, the following plans have a protected age (policy number starts with):

TKxxxxxxxx or SPxxxxxxxx

AVxxxxxxx

TLxxxxxxxx

PP44xxxxxx, Pxxxxxxxx

SMxxxxxxxx or SQxxxxxxxx

PW56 or PW59

The following plans do not have a protected age:

GSxxxxxxx

Fxxxxx/xxxxx

What is interesting there is that those that do are all on the CGNU side.   The other two are FP.     Unfortunately, they haven't covered all the plans yet.  Possibly as they do not know yet as it all comes down to contract wording.

AHH, f**k.. my pension reference is GS...

Why the f**k would my company not set up the scheme with protected age? that is an absolute !!!!!! show and so poorly communicated.. I asked questions about this three times and basically got.assurance there probably was protection 

I'm going to write to Aviva anyway to triple check because I've found the right email now

Does the feedback that some people in the scheme are protected and some aren't sound right to you? 

Kinda changes my planning a lot.. that was my main opportunity to bridge a bit earlier than 57

dunstonh

Why the f**k would my company not set up the scheme with protected age? that is an absolute !!!!!! show and so poorly communicated.. I asked questions about this three times and basically got.assurance there probably was protection 

The protected age in the contract is a quirk that wasn't meant to happen.  It purely came down to the wording of the terms.     Some schemes were written with the wording "normal minimum pension age" and others would actually have stated age 55 as the minimum.

Does the feedback that some people in the scheme are protected and some aren't sound right to you? 

it is possible.   If Aviva did a bulk transfer from a legacy scheme into the master trust scheme, then those transferred would retain the protected age.

HCIMbtw

Useful again thanks dunston, I was actually transferred in on bulk switch as part of a previous scheme with the same company


Have to assume if they are telling me my account isn't protected age though they've already looked at this though

Regarding querying these details any advice on if it is best to go direct to the provider? Or through my old work?

Let's say for example I want a copy of the terms of original pension before it was transferred in

dunstonh

Have to assume if they are telling me my account isn't protected age though they've already looked at this though

It is more likely that the staff member looked at the same list I did.

Regarding querying these details any advice on if it is best to go direct to the provider? Or through my old work?

Go to Aviva.  Put it in writing, and mention it was bulk transferred in.   If you know the account number style of the old plan, does that match any of the styles above?  (noting that the plans with protected ages are CGNU plans (Norwich office) whereas the plans without are FP (Salisbury).  No mention of AXA Sun Life based plans at the moment - that is the Bristol office).