Terms of contract - is this legal

samkma

Is this legal?
Below is an extract from an employment contract (the employer is pursuing via court for this and has managed to get CCJ issued using wrong address for the employee and just found out when a ccj appeared on the credit score. Total amount is £7025.63

Quote "Notice periods
Notice period to be given by the employee to the employer

0-36 month’s service – CANNOT TERMINATE CONTRACT

WITHOUT SEVERE FINANCIAL PENALTIES.

Should you terminate your contract at any time up to 36 month

from your start date, the following penalties apply for breach of

contract:

 Administrative cost of £3500.

 £1,000 for training 

 36 months and beyond, 3 MONTHS NOTICE IS

MANDATORY.

During your notice period, no ANNUAL LEAVE is permitted" (end Quote)

Wonka_2

Maybe we need to know more about the 'employer' 

a UK company/UK employment contract ?
a traditional employer/employee relationship or some more obscure arrangement (pyramid scheme/franchise/specialist role etc)

Is this a real situation for you/a friend or an exam question ?

samkma

Wonka_2 said:

Maybe we need to know more about the 'employer' 

a UK company/UK employment contract ?
UK company (care home)
a traditional employer/employee relationship or some more obscure arrangement (pyramid scheme/franchise/specialist role etc)

Is this a real situation for you/a friend or an exam question ?
yes, real situation someone facing £7000 court order for debt.
Asking for a friend.

Trying to help make a N244 application to set the CCJ aside and look into it as per contract its £4500 how did it become £7000?

Wonka_2

samkma said:

Wonka_2 said:

Maybe we need to know more about the 'employer' 

a UK company/UK employment contract ?
UK company (care home)
a traditional employer/employee relationship or some more obscure arrangement (pyramid scheme/franchise/specialist role etc)

Is this a real situation for you/a friend or an exam question ?
yes, real situation someone facing £7000 court order for debt.
Asking for a friend.

Trying to help make a N244 application to set the CCJ aside and look into it as per contract its £4500 how did it become £7000?

OK - and is that the full relevant part of the contract or a selected extract ? 

Given the sector/industry have there been other expenses incurred (Visa sponsorship/training/certification/accommodation etc) or any other overpayments made/amounts owing ?

Or has the request been ignored (hence it ending up at CCJ level) with potentially increased costs - previous paperwork should suggest how £4.5k has become £7k

Presumably the friend knew the conditions of the contract before signing ?

tripled

If this is an employment contract, I believe those clauses would be seen as unreasonable because they are blanket amounts without any breakdown.

Typically training costs would need to be justified and would usually be on a sliding scale (for example, 100% in year 1, 66% in year 2, 33% in year three).

I believe they would also be able to deduct specific administrative cost if agreed, such as visa sponsorship, relocation payments/expenses, etc.

I can't comment on the enforceability of a three year initial term without notice being allowed. However, when suing for breach of contract, the "wronged" party has a duty to mitigate their losses. So, if the breach was enforceable, the costs of finding a replacement might be claimable. Again, it wouldn't just be a blanket amount lumped under administrative fees, it would need to be evidenced.

I suggest a conversation with the ACAS helpline would be a good starting point to find out more, and perhaps speaking to the Citizens Advice Bureau if your friend can get an appointment. Alternatively, if your friend has legal cover on their home insurance, they might be able to help.

Marcon

samkma said:

Wonka_2 said:

Maybe we need to know more about the 'employer' 

a UK company/UK employment contract ?
UK company (care home)
a traditional employer/employee relationship or some more obscure arrangement (pyramid scheme/franchise/specialist role etc)

Is this a real situation for you/a friend or an exam question ?
yes, real situation someone facing £7000 court order for debt.
Asking for a friend.

Trying to help make a N244 application to set the CCJ aside and look into it as per contract its £4500 how did it become £7000?

GIven the amounts involved, I suggest your friend gets properly informed assistance from an employer lawyer with sight of the FULL contract. This sort of piecemeal extract won't enable anyone here to comment on an informed basis;  you'll just get guesswork and googling from those trying to do so.

Grumpy_chap

The OP / friend needs proper legal advice.

Some comments for consideration:

1. The paperwork should explain how the £4.5k became £7k.  It might include interest on the original amounts.  It might include costs of debt recovery / enforcement / legal.
2. At what month did the friend leave the employment?
3. Is the training (£1k) for a transferable qualification or simply to do with the training for that business and their procedures?
4. What is the £3.5k administration cost for?  Was there some exceptional onboarding element?  Is it to so with the costs of replacement?

samkma

Grumpy_chap said:

The OP / friend needs proper legal advice.

Some comments for consideration:

1. The paperwork should explain how the £4.5k became £7k.  It might include interest on the original amounts.  It might include costs of debt recovery / enforcement / legal.
2. At what month did the friend leave the employment?
3. Is the training (£1k) for a transferable qualification or simply to do with the training for that business and their procedures?
4. What is the £3.5k administration cost for?  Was there some exceptional onboarding element?  Is it to so with the costs of replacement?

1. There is no paperwork to back it up as the amount is shown of the credit report against the CCJ.
2. Sept 2022
3. Just basic Mandatory healthcare assistant training like manual handling, BLS, Fire etc
4. Just says admin costs on the contract.

The reason for trying to help is all solicitors are asking in range of £1000 plus to deal with this, there no money available, so I am trying to help set aside the CCJ and friend is happy to go and defend at a hearing. So the cost is £275 to do a N244. 

Thank you and to everyone for your inputs much appreciated.

General_Grant

My local university offers free advice/help - given by students but overseen by lecturers.  They mainly concentrate on housing issues, though.  They wouldn't appear in court but could guide.  Do any of your local universities who do law degrees offer this?

Are there other solicitor firms who offer a pro bono consultation?

Grumpy_chap

samkma said:

Grumpy_chap said:

1. At what month did the friend leave the employment?

1. Sept 2022

I maybe was not clear when I asked "at what month did the friend leave the employment?" it was not so much the actual calendar month and year, but at what month of employment?  With reference to the period indicated:

samkma said:

Quote "Notice periods
Notice period to be given by the employee to the employer

0-36 month’s service – CANNOT TERMINATE CONTRACT

WITHOUT SEVERE FINANCIAL PENALTIES.

What month out of 0 - 36 months' service?


Someone with more knowledge might be able to advise whether the terms around the training are legally enforceable.  I certainly do not consider that these terms are common and, where I have seen similar terms in the past they have an element of gradual decrease rather than the cliff edge in this case.  Maybe such terms are classed as unfair / unequal bargaining power.

Archerychick

Definitely needs proper legal advice on this, can they speak to Acas in the first instance.

 I read back in December an article about care workers from overseas being trapped in roles for something like 5 years. Unsure if this is the persons situation or not though - 

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-67684417.amp

I’ve had training agreements in place where an employer has invested substantial amounts in external training, where if I left after x time I would pay back x but I haven’t heard of this for internal training. Something isn’t right here!