Being forced to use a Financial Advisor to transfer pension to pension.

Marcon

MallyGirl said:

Marcon said:

MallyGirl said:

if the transfer value is greater than £30k then she has to take advice. There is basically no one that will accept a transfer without a positive recommendation but she will still pay the fee for the advice exercise (maybe £5k). It is not a box ticking exercise. Unless she has some very specific reasons that would make it positive - such as very reduced life expectancy - then this is basically a non-starter.

See my answer above...I thought this particular myth had been laid to rest long ago.

I haven't noticed anyone coming on here to say that this avenue has been successfully utilised. There has been discussion in the past on the limited number of stakeholder offerings out there that could be used but I see that Standard Life seem to do one. Maybe that is the answer but the advisor fee still has to be paid and that now sounds like it is rising

I've not seen anyone who has posted on here saying their stakeholder wouldn't accept a transfer - and I think there have been several posts in the last 18 months of so confirming they have done so successfully. For the record, I've seen it done a number of times in the last couple of years.

It's the legislation that counts, not a tiny group of people posting on here about what they have or haven't done, so that's the better starting point. 

Marcon

scoobyjones1 said:

Marcon said:

Brie said:

I've been looking to move my pensions to someplace that will provide an annuity and everyone so far has stated categorically that they will not consider accepting any DB scheme.  And that's even if you have advice.  It is just too big a risk for any SIPP provider that, in however many years, your wife might suddenly realise that she has lost some benefit the DB scheme would have given, whether it's an enhanced, guaranteed monthly payment or a survivor option or anything else.  

I have heard of people paying up to £10k to an IFA in an attempt to get a positive result only to be told there's no way the IFA will recommend it.  The very very few that do succeed are those with an extremely limited life expectancy.  I'm hoping that's not your wife's situation.

You're right that no SIPP will take a DB transfer against advice, but a stakeholder pension will - there is a legal obligation to do so. You'll still need to take advice, because the DB scheme cannot release the transfer (if it's upward of £30K and has 'safeguarded benefits', as all DB schemes do) without verifying that you've done so.

Thanks for that...so we could move it into a stakeholder type pension but again, only if we pay an adviser? Because the DB pension holder will not release it unless we do? Still feels like a stitch up!
We would be prepared to move it into another pension first if we could them transfer it to her SIPP eventually. Would that be an option? 

Yes, yes and yes - but if the transfer value has already been issued, and she's close to the scheme's retirement age, you would probably need to get on with it. The CETV is only valid for 3 months from the calculation date, and your wife may not be entitled to another once she reaches the scheme's retirement age (you'd need to check with the scheme).

scoobyjones1

Marcon said:

scoobyjones1 said:

Marcon said:

Brie said:

I've been looking to move my pensions to someplace that will provide an annuity and everyone so far has stated categorically that they will not consider accepting any DB scheme.  And that's even if you have advice.  It is just too big a risk for any SIPP provider that, in however many years, your wife might suddenly realise that she has lost some benefit the DB scheme would have given, whether it's an enhanced, guaranteed monthly payment or a survivor option or anything else.  

I have heard of people paying up to £10k to an IFA in an attempt to get a positive result only to be told there's no way the IFA will recommend it.  The very very few that do succeed are those with an extremely limited life expectancy.  I'm hoping that's not your wife's situation.

You're right that no SIPP will take a DB transfer against advice, but a stakeholder pension will - there is a legal obligation to do so. You'll still need to take advice, because the DB scheme cannot release the transfer (if it's upward of £30K and has 'safeguarded benefits', as all DB schemes do) without verifying that you've done so.

Thanks for that...so we could move it into a stakeholder type pension but again, only if we pay an adviser? Because the DB pension holder will not release it unless we do? Still feels like a stitch up!
We would be prepared to move it into another pension first if we could them transfer it to her SIPP eventually. Would that be an option? 

Yes, yes and yes - but if the transfer value has already been issued, and she's close to the scheme's retirement age, you would probably need to get on with it. The CETV is only valid for 3 months from the calculation date, and your wife may not be entitled to another once she reaches the scheme's retirement age (you'd need to check with the scheme).

But would the DB pension holder even release the pension to be transferred into a stakeholder type pension, which also have fees, without us paying an IFA to approve it? Might they then just take a signed form saying we have taken our own advice? It's so complicated!

Seems we will just have to stay in this old pension scheme against our real wishes. It's not a huge pension in the grand scheme of things but I know we could make it grow and it would suit us at our age to be able to have access to the full amount (or at least the CETV amount)...rather than dribs and drabs over the coming years, God willing!

NoMore

Instead of trying to transfer it, take it at retirement and just invest the monthly amount so you can grow it that way ?

As you've been told by many, trying to transfer it, is going to involve a lot of expense and unlikely to be successful. As its apparently not a major part of your portfolio anyway why not have a nice guaranteed income.

Marcon

scoobyjones1 said:

Marcon said:

scoobyjones1 said:

Marcon said:

Brie said:

I've been looking to move my pensions to someplace that will provide an annuity and everyone so far has stated categorically that they will not consider accepting any DB scheme.  And that's even if you have advice.  It is just too big a risk for any SIPP provider that, in however many years, your wife might suddenly realise that she has lost some benefit the DB scheme would have given, whether it's an enhanced, guaranteed monthly payment or a survivor option or anything else.  

I have heard of people paying up to £10k to an IFA in an attempt to get a positive result only to be told there's no way the IFA will recommend it.  The very very few that do succeed are those with an extremely limited life expectancy.  I'm hoping that's not your wife's situation.

You're right that no SIPP will take a DB transfer against advice, but a stakeholder pension will - there is a legal obligation to do so. You'll still need to take advice, because the DB scheme cannot release the transfer (if it's upward of £30K and has 'safeguarded benefits', as all DB schemes do) without verifying that you've done so.

Thanks for that...so we could move it into a stakeholder type pension but again, only if we pay an adviser? Because the DB pension holder will not release it unless we do? Still feels like a stitch up!
We would be prepared to move it into another pension first if we could them transfer it to her SIPP eventually. Would that be an option? 

Yes, yes and yes - but if the transfer value has already been issued, and she's close to the scheme's retirement age, you would probably need to get on with it. The CETV is only valid for 3 months from the calculation date, and your wife may not be entitled to another once she reaches the scheme's retirement age (you'd need to check with the scheme).

But would the DB pension holder even release the pension to be transferred into a stakeholder type pension, which also have fees, without us paying an IFA to approve it? Might they then just take a signed form saying we have taken our own advice? It's so complicated!

There are very limited circumstances where a DB scheme can refuse a transfer out if someone has a mandatory right to a transfer. They won't just 'take your word for it' that you've taken advice - they must have something known as a S48 certificate, signed by the adviser, who must be properly regulated and have FCS 'permissions' to advise on DB transfers. The scheme is highly likely to make checks on the adviser to ensure the certificate has been validity completed (e.g. calling them on their firm's main landline number or similar, as well as checking the FCA register).

Yes, it is complicated - but there are often huge sums (upwards of £1m) being transferred, at a time when pension scams have never been so prevalent.

The fact that so many of the large players in the IFA market no longer advise on transfers gives the lie to the idea that this is all some sort of conspiracy designed to increase their fee income.

scoobyjones1 said:

Seems we will just have to stay in this old pension scheme against our real wishes. It's not a huge pension in the grand scheme of things but I know we could make it grow and it would suit us at our age to be able to have access to the full amount (or at least the CETV amount)...rather than dribs and drabs over the coming years, God willing!

You might want to look at the large number of threads on this forum bemoaning the fact that DC pension values have dropped... The assumption that values can only go one way, especially in such uncertain times, isn't the same thing as a guarantee, as many have found to their cost.

scoobyjones1

NoMore said:

Instead of trying to transfer it, take it at retirement and just invest the monthly amount so you can grow it that way ?

As you've been told by many, trying to transfer it, is going to involve a lot of expense and unlikely to be successful. As its apparently not a major part of your portfolio anyway why not have a nice guaranteed income.

Yes NoMore....I am beginning to feel the same way. My wife is upset though as she would prefer to have the CETV in her own SIPP. What they have offered may be nice, and a small help to her, if she lives to a hundred. Just might be too difficult, so the IFA's won't be seeing her cash by the sounds of it.

Dazed_and_C0nfused

scoobyjones1 said:

NoMore said:

Instead of trying to transfer it, take it at retirement and just invest the monthly amount so you can grow it that way ?

As you've been told by many, trying to transfer it, is going to involve a lot of expense and unlikely to be successful. As its apparently not a major part of your portfolio anyway why not have a nice guaranteed income.

Yes NoMore....I am beginning to feel the same way. My wife is upset though as she would prefer to have the CETV in her own SIPP. What they have offered may be nice, and a small help to her, if she lives to a hundred. Just might be too difficult, so the IFA's won't be seeing her cash by the sounds of it.

They aren't "offering" that though.

It is what she is entitled to under the scheme rules.

If she really wanted a DC pension she could presumably have opted out of the DB scheme and opened her own pension.

eskbanker

scoobyjones1 said:
My wife is upset though as she would prefer to have the CETV in her own SIPP. What they have offered may be nice, and a small help to her, if she lives to a hundred.

What's the CETV as a multiple of the annual DB payment, and what indexation is there?  Did any advisor plant the idea in her head that transferring into a SIPP would be straightforward or was that just a misunderstanding?

scoobyjones1

Marcon said:

scoobyjones1 said:

Marcon said:

scoobyjones1 said:

Marcon said:

Brie said:

I've been looking to move my pensions to someplace that will provide an annuity and everyone so far has stated categorically that they will not consider accepting any DB scheme.  And that's even if you have advice.  It is just too big a risk for any SIPP provider that, in however many years, your wife might suddenly realise that she has lost some benefit the DB scheme would have given, whether it's an enhanced, guaranteed monthly payment or a survivor option or anything else.  

I have heard of people paying up to £10k to an IFA in an attempt to get a positive result only to be told there's no way the IFA will recommend it.  The very very few that do succeed are those with an extremely limited life expectancy.  I'm hoping that's not your wife's situation.

You're right that no SIPP will take a DB transfer against advice, but a stakeholder pension will - there is a legal obligation to do so. You'll still need to take advice, because the DB scheme cannot release the transfer (if it's upward of £30K and has 'safeguarded benefits', as all DB schemes do) without verifying that you've done so.

Thanks for that...so we could move it into a stakeholder type pension but again, only if we pay an adviser? Because the DB pension holder will not release it unless we do? Still feels like a stitch up!
We would be prepared to move it into another pension first if we could them transfer it to her SIPP eventually. Would that be an option? 

Yes, yes and yes - but if the transfer value has already been issued, and she's close to the scheme's retirement age, you would probably need to get on with it. The CETV is only valid for 3 months from the calculation date, and your wife may not be entitled to another once she reaches the scheme's retirement age (you'd need to check with the scheme).

But would the DB pension holder even release the pension to be transferred into a stakeholder type pension, which also have fees, without us paying an IFA to approve it? Might they then just take a signed form saying we have taken our own advice? It's so complicated!

There are very limited circumstances where a DB scheme can refuse a transfer out if someone has a mandatory right to a transfer. They won't just 'take your word for it' that you've taken advice - they must have something known as a S48 certificate, signed by the adviser, who must be properly regulated and have FCS 'permissions' to advise on DB transfers. The scheme is highly likely to make checks on the adviser to ensure the certificate has been validity completed (e.g. calling them on their firm's main landline number or similar, as well as checking the FCA register).

Yes, it is complicated - but there are often huge sums (upwards of £1m) being transferred, at a time when pension scams have never been so prevalent.

The fact that so many of the large players in the IFA market no longer advise on transfers gives the lie to the idea that this is all some sort of conspiracy designed to increase their fee income.

scoobyjones1 said:

Seems we will just have to stay in this old pension scheme against our real wishes. It's not a huge pension in the grand scheme of things but I know we could make it grow and it would suit us at our age to be able to have access to the full amount (or at least the CETV amount)...rather than dribs and drabs over the coming years, God willing!

You might want to look at the large number of threads on this forum bemoaning the fact that DC pension values have dropped... The assumption that values can only go one way, especially in such uncertain times, isn't the same thing as a guarantee, as many have found to their cost.

If this had been her main pension, her life's career then this would be different. This is a small pension from a few years work, many years ago. It has made money but now we would like to have control of it. Seems the rules make that nigh on impossible, according to most comments on here. It's only small amounts and there is no way she would be making a huge mistake in putting it into a SIPP some to cash, with interest and some into stocks or bonds...and even if it goes badly then that would be our fault...not the DB holder or the SIPP provider. I think it's over bearing and hypocritical of the Gov to freeze the 30k limit for so long...and then say you have pension "freedom"... as long as you pay an approved IFA whatever they want to charge you and take as long as they like to do the "work". Every SIPP gives you a summary every year as to what your pension is worth or could be worth depending on what you do with it. We don't need an IFA for that. However, this is mandatory. Not nice, IMO.

QrizB

scoobyjones1 said:

Marcon said:

scoobyjones1 said:

Thanks for that...so we could move it into a stakeholder type pension but again, only if we pay an adviser? Because the DB pension holder will not release it unless we do? Still feels like a stitch up!
We would be prepared to move it into another pension first if we could them transfer it to her SIPP eventually. Would that be an option? 

Yes, yes and yes - but if the transfer value has already been issued, and she's close to the scheme's retirement age, you would probably need to get on with it. The CETV is only valid for 3 months from the calculation date, and your wife may not be entitled to another once she reaches the scheme's retirement age (you'd need to check with the scheme).

But would the DB pension holder even release the pension to be transferred into a stakeholder type pension, which also have fees, without us paying an IFA to approve it?

No, because it would be illegal. Pension funds know what the law is regarding DB transfers. The DB fund wouldn't release it, and (if for some reason they did) the SIPP wouldn't accept it.

scoobyjones1 said:

xylophone said:

Has your wife now reached Normal Retirement Age under the rules of the DB Scheme?

Well Xylophone, she is a month away from 60 which was the agreed retirement age according to the DB scheme.

Has the scheme said they'll start paying out in a month, or does your wife need to actively claim it? If the former, you're probably already too late to start a transfer.

eskbanker said:

scoobyjones1 said:
My wife is upset though as she would prefer to have the CETV in her own SIPP. What they have offered may be nice, and a small help to her, if she lives to a hundred.

What's the CETV as a multiple of the annual DB payment, and what indexation is there?  Did any advisor plant the idea in her head that transferring into a SIPP would be straightforward or was that just a misunderstanding?

OP has said £2.5k pa, CETV £60k. It's not yet clear whether £2.5k was the value when OP's wife left the scheme, or if it's what she's been quoted at NPA in a month.