Council Tax Appeal - Valuation Tribunal Service.

peterbishop1

 Hi All,

I've recently moved into a new property and have appealed to my local council regards to the council tax band I'm in.On my street, there is atleast 5 houses in a lower band than myself (B). I've submitted evidence to the council of this and have had my appeal rejected on the basis that the houses are "Similar to your own but

smaller in size". Houses on my street were build in the 1900 and therefore all have a similar floor plan & structure. 

£51,000 approx. - Aug 1992 Similar to you own but smaller in size hence lower sale price

 

£54,000 -approx. Sept 1993 Similar to you own and sale supports band C

 

£53,000 -approx.  Apr 1994 Similar to you own and sale supports band C 

As there is limited information online about house prices going back to 1st April 1991, I used a house price index. They came back saying 

 

“VOA does not consider indices to be a reliable method of estimating the 1991 value of a property as they generally cover wide geographic areas which have widely different property types and are often based on a relatively small sample of evidence. During the high court case of Dmbides v listing office (2008) it was concluded that “ street location general surveys of housing prices were not an accurate or acceptable way of valuing or placing an individual property in a band”.  

 

I’ve put together data – Highlighted in green below showing where they stated the house price size is smaller than in band B. Above this, I’ve listed my property size showing the metre squared size factoring in the shed, garage (outside of the standard house structure) as per the floor plan when I bought the property this year. The house was originally a three bed and has been converted into a two bed prior to purchasing.

 

I’m looking for advice from others who’ve had success in going to the valuation tribunal service (Any understanding fees for this). On the basis the council are suggesting the house price of a property similar size to mine was £54,000 in September 1993, I’m confident that this would have gone below the band for c - £52,001 - £68,000 & therefore fall into a band B -£40,001- £52,000.

Any advice would be appreciated. 

lincroft1710

In most areas 1992 to 1995 prices were lower than 1991. The VOA area of a property will not include outbuildings

The VOA are completely separate from the council, they are part of HMRC.

I wouldn't trust Zoopla areas, the VOA will have measured the properties themselves.

There are no fees or costs for a VT appeal.

The Domblides (not Dmbides) case was more famous for the fact that Mr Domblides was ordered to pay £8,100 costs.

My opinion is the VOA case is fairly sound, but a VT may disagree, it will all boil down to who they believe has presented the strongest evidence. .

peterbishop1

Many thanks for your comments. I've read that once appealing the decisions via the valuation tribunal, I've seen circumstances where the council come to you in order to find a resolution to stop it going to the hearing, is this true?

As for information, as you've suggested, it's all about the evidence submitted. Other than land registry and zoopla, are there any well known areas for finding this information about size of property's to compare those in band B to the size of my property?  Out of the total number of houses on the street, alot have never been sold therefore there are no floor plans or previous data to go by, mine included was owned by the same family from 1900 uptill the point I bought it. 

Thanks 

Jonboy_1984

If they have been sold or rented in the last 10 or so years they should have an EPC filed. This give a total square meter figure

https://www.gov.uk/find-energy-certificate

peterbishop1

Thanks for this suggestion Jonboy_1984

Based on the properties highlighted in green above in band B, the sizes are :

House 1) - 58 Square Metres
House 2) No EPC Showing 
House 3) No EPC Showing 
House 4) 68 Square Metres
House 5) 62 Square Metres

My property shows on the EPC as: 69 Square Metres


Other houses within 10 doors of mine either side show:
62 Square Metres-   Band C-No 27 
91 Square Metres- Band C- No 89 
68 Square Metres-  Band B - No 69
62 Square Metres - Band B - No 71
59 Square Metres- Band C- No 73
74 Square Metres- Band C - No 79
55 Square Metres - Band C - No 83
64 Square Metres- Band C - No 85
62 Square Metres- Band C - No 87
91 Square Metres - Band C - No 89

lincroft1710

peterbishop1 said:

Many thanks for your comments. I've read that once appealing the decisions via the valuation tribunal, I've seen circumstances where the council come to you in order to find a resolution to stop it going to the hearing, is this true?

As for information, as you've suggested, it's all about the evidence submitted. Other than land registry and zoopla, are there any well known areas for finding this information about size of property's to compare those in band B to the size of my property?  Out of the total number of houses on the street, alot have never been sold therefore there are no floor plans or previous data to go by, mine included was owned by the same family from 1900 uptill the point I bought it. 

Thanks 

I will repeat, it is NOT the council you are dealing with but the VOA. If they decide the band should be reduced they will do so and thus avoid the need for a Tribunal hearing


 EPC areas also aren't guaranteed to be accurate. Other than finding the original builders' plans for the houses (which is probably next to impossible) there is nothing in the public domain that will give accurate areas for property. The only organisation which has records of the size of almost every property in England and Wales is the VOA itself and members of their staff will have measured most of these themselves over the past 70 years. All houses and bungalows are measured to Gross External Area (an exception may be London) and flats/maisonettes to Effective Floor Area

peterbishop1

Many Thanks lincroft1710.

In which case, my only option by the sounds of things is to apply for the tribunal hearing and provide all evidence that is available based on my findings. Worse case scenario I'll be better informed. Best case scenario, the band will be moved from a C to a B. 

Has anyone had experience of the tribunal that's proved useful, eg where their evidence was provided from etc.

peterbishop1

From looking at the evidence online, out of the 15 appeals made in the area, only one has been passed. Who's had success in appealing and winning? 

lincroft1710

peterbishop1 said:

From looking at the evidence online, out of the 15 appeals made in the area, only one has been passed. 

That would not be unusual. The VOA should agree a reduction where it is clear a reduction is warranted and should only take a case to VT where it seems the band is clearly correct or it is a case where there is no definitive evidence

ic

peterbishop1 said:

From looking at the evidence online, out of the 15 appeals made in the area, only one has been passed. Who's had success in appealing and winning? 

Take a look at this board, its mostly council tax reclaims: https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/categories/other-reclaiming-mortgage-fees-council-tax-etc

MSE_ForumTeam5

We've moved this thread to the board mentioned in the above post