Clerical Medical - Extremely Poor Service

dunstonh

If that's the case why have they been sending me the same booklet every year for at least a decade showing the option to take 25% tax free lump sum on reaching 55 if it was never available to me?

Yes, for plans after 1988 (excluding FSAVCs) you could get 25% TFC.  However, that was on the basis of you using the 75% at the same time to buy an annuity.        Not for doing drawdown.  None of Clerical Medical's plans were built or coded to do drawdown right up to when they closed for new business over a decade ago.

I have kept the original pension documents from 34 years ago, and in there it also says I can take 25% tax free?

But it doesn't say you can do drawdown (noting that Flexi-Access drawdown only became available from 6th April 2015.   The transaction you are asking them to do is flexi-access drawdown.  Not to buy an annuity, which was the only method this plan could support when you bought it (either in-house or open market option).

slpierce

Ahh ok, so taking the 25% tax free cash wont be a problem (that's was my main worry) but they are probably going to ask me to put the rest into an annuity, if that's the case that's ok, what I don't understand it the lack of clarity from them, why not make that clear in my annual update, or tell me when I applied last month, or just tell me on the phone when I asked for some idea as to what was going on, I went through the whole process of choosing what to do with the money with no issues raised by them.

dunstonh

slpierce said:

Ahh ok, so taking the 25% tax free cash wont be a problem (that's was my main worry) but they are probably going to ask me to put the rest into an annuity, if that's the case that's ok, what I don't understand it the lack of clarity from them, why not make that clear in my annual update, or tell me when I applied last month, or just tell me on the phone when I asked for some idea as to what was going on, I went through the whole process of choosing what to do with the money with no issues raised by them.

Part of the problem is that the regulatory requirements are that they have to mention all the main options (its not exhaustive).   Even if the plan itself doesn't offer that.  

With the rules changed in 2015, some providers have been successful getting legacy plans to offer some drawdown functionality retrospectively.  Typically UFPLS but not so much with drawdown.     Some providers have got it working with some of their plans but not others.   Time will tell whether yours is one of those.

If they don't offer what you want, then you transfer it to a provider with a modern plan that does.  Then you do the transaction you want.

The other issue with providers is that they don't have regulatory permissions to give advice. So, they cannot offer advice, opinions, or suggestions about options.  So, they often come across as unhelpful or confusing but in reality, they cant.

slpierce

Still awaiting the (within 3-5 days) letter from Clerical Medical to give me some clue as to why they aren't giving me access to my own money, rang them again, same experience as I had al last week, sent from one person to another, despite me asking them to read the notes for as long as they liked to get up to speed with my issues.


Eventually got to a lady called Margaret who seemed genuinely sorry about what has happened, she has told me she is going to escalate it, and you guessed it, I'll have an answer "within 3-5 days" lol, I did tell Margaret I had already been told this, but I was so exhausted by the calls I just told her thx and I'll wait the 3-5 days..........again 

gm0

The answer is upthread.  Legacy plans of similar vintage often had only a few options. 

Lump sum whole fund single year (the big UFPLS payment useful to extinguish a small pension but otherwise of not much value

25% and annuity (with open market option when that became a regulatory push). 

And predate the early capped drawdown and the more modern kind.  My old one was like this of late 80s vintage. Different provider. Same timing and regulatory framework when the product cake was baked.

Some do add it.  Closed books not so much.  Active employer schemes still running - sometimes.  And it is often accompanied by a "full transfer" to a modernised plan. either at retirement one at a time.  Or en masse.  Mine was the "individual moves to the new master trust at retirement" to access drawdown kind.  You could go anywhere. It's the same transaction - just product features and prices.

Full transfer out is your go to option to access new pension freedoms absent any compelling old product features and terms (GARs etc.)

The providers must wish they could signal this to people rather than stick to boiler plate and watch people thrash, get angry and then fruitlessly complain that a company regulated "not to provide personalised advice" - isn't.

slpierce

Yes I have had some good feedback on here, but I'd like to hear something solid from my actual pension provider, another 10 days have gone by and I'm still none the wiser as to what's happening, surely at very least I deserve to be told what the actual issue is from them, and my options going forward, the communication and snail like response is not acceptable imho, I'll ring them again on Friday and go through the excruciating pain of another lengthy phone call.

xylophone

If you haven't already booked a Pension Wise interview it might be a good idea to do so.

https://www.moneyhelper.org.uk/en/pensions-and-retirement/pension-wise/book-a-free-pension-wise-appointment

When you decided to access your pension, did you request a retirement pack from CM/SW?

If you did, were the options available not set out in the letter?

And I do not see how it could possibly qualify as "advice" if the letter simply stated that flexi access drawdown would not be available

under this particular plan.

slpierce

I followed all their guidelines from the booklet they send me every year, the booklet includes things like my fund value, what my options are when I reach 55 etc etc, Flexi Access Drawdown was one of the options available according to the booklet.

I received a call on my 55th Birthday (April) and had to answer lots of question, I had to pre book the call in advance, the call was a very very long, they asked for lots of information, I was asked what I wanted to do with my fund, we discussed Flexi Access Drawdown, as that was my preferred option, nothing flagged up during the call to say this wasn't an option, they even told me as I was a Lloyds customer I should have the TFC in around 2 weeks, they gave me a figure as to what that would be going off the current value of the fund.

Weeks went by and I heard nothing, that's when I started calling them asking what was happening, I took several days of calling them every day for long periods of time and I got no explanation, SW told me it CM problem, CM told me it was a SW problem, I made an official complaint, this went on for weeks until I got contacted by someone from their complaints department, I now have one person I'm in touch with via email so that at lease saves me from the hell of ringing their call centre.

Our email communications have been ongoing for 2-3 weeks now, and the only solid information I have had up to now, which I got today was the following.......

"The servicing team have advised, your policy has been impacted by an issue with the fund selection which is preventing our systems from processing your request"

I have access to my fund online, I can see the value going up and down, I cannot comprehend why they can't give me a solid answer or timeframe to solve this issue one way or the other, Is Flexi Access Drawdown available too me or not, if not, what are my options etc etc.

xylophone

"The servicing team have advised, your policy has been impacted by an issue with the fund selection which is preventing our systems from processing your request"

https://www.clericalmedical.co.uk/fund-availability-and-prices/fund-factsheets/individual-pensions.html

See above - in which funds is your pension invested?

Apart from that though,  the administration of "access" to the pension seems rather unusual.

It appears that this all started about two months ago (mid April) when you reached your 55th birthday.

You had originally (in 1990), set this as the date when you wished to take benefits from the pension.

The original documents indicated that it would be possible to take a tax free Pension Commencement Lump Sum (25% of the value of

the investments within the pension). 

It seems that rather than request a retirement options pack from CM, you booked a telephone call with one of the team to discuss

the matter.

It seems that you were given the impression that your request to take a PCLS had actually been accepted and would be actioned

and that the policy permitted Flexi access drawdown (which given the date when the policy was taken out seems odd in itself).


You received no documentation following the call despite several further calla and even a formal complaint.

Now you are told that there is a problem with your fund - it may be that there is a liquidity problem with one of the funds within

your pension but it seems more likely that the correct process to access the pension has not been followed?

dunstonh

It seems that rather than request a retirement options pack from CM, you booked a telephone call with one of the team to discuss

Its worth noting that the pathways timescale would have been followed.  That is a staged process that starts years before the selected retirement age on the plan.   It is mailings sent out at defined points to help prepare in advance.

I believe SW have an in-house salesforce where they try to move existing plans to their modern product that does support drawdown.

Now you are told that there is a problem with your fund - it may be that there is a liquidity problem with one of the funds within  your pension but it seems more likely that the correct process to access the pension has not been followed?

The only fund with liquidity issues is the property fund which did have a suspension for a period (I don't know if it still does)
it could be a section 32 buy out bond with GMP (CM used to be a big player on S32s).  That cannot support drawdown and if there is GMP, then SW cannot covert it to a drawdown plan (it would need an adviser).    They also had GARs on their section 226 RACs (so safeguarded requirements would again apply and S226s cannot do drawdown).     There is a small number (relatively speaking) of hybrid plans that require manual calculations when accessing them.    A good number of the front-line staff are not aware of these "heritage" plans until the computer won't let them do something.   They then need to refer to the small heritage team who need to run the calculations manually.    That can be sluggish.

In my experience with CM plans, I have not had one yet that supports drawdown.  UFPLS has been possible but none of the plans could handle crystallised funds.  

I suspect an IFA would find out within 30 minutes what the issue is but we are not getting the information.  So, just guessing really.