Missing APCs - local government pension

housebuyer143

Silvertabby said:

housebuyer143 said:

hyubh said:

housebuyer143 said:

Frustratingly I wanted to do AVCs and was told to to APCs by payroll

That sounds odd - an LGPS AVC and APC are fundamentally different things. How far had you got setting things up with the AVC provider...?

I didn't get too far, filled in the form and then when I mentioned to payroll what I was doing, she basically swayed me on APCs, says it is better etc. 
I don't know about DB schemes much so took her word for it. I would have said no, the moment she mentioned paying for a medical letter.

I am going to have to send off for the form to sort these, and then what I'm going to do is make any extra payments I need to, direct into my personal pension and bypass these guys in future.

Haven't been at my work very long so it's very awkward and I don't want to cause waves, but this !!!!!! up is costing me money and stress.

Payroll telling a LGPS member that APCs are better than AVCs ! Ye Gods, that would have been a sackable offence in my day.  Even a LGPS administrator can't 'advise' - just explain the differences.

Reading through all of this thread, I'm afraid this is a right sorry  tale. Yes, an APC contract (ie, paying monthly over X years rather than by one lump sum) is subject to a satisfactory medical report, because someone who takes out a contract and then retires on  ill health shortly after would be awarded the full value of the (unpaid for) contract.  The medical assessment and the Dr's declaration (that they know of no reason why Mr X won't remain fit for work until the end of the contract) isn't covered by the NHS, so  not only will OP have to book a private appointment with their GP they will have to pay.  The average cost 6 years ago was at least £80, so expect it will be substantially more now. 

The LGPS administrators are really stuck between a rock and a hard place.  The forms and the medical assessment must be supplied before the contract can be set up, so I can understand them saying that they may have to refund.  Especially if OP opts not to pay for the private medical assessment. 

This is not 'advice' - just a suggestion.  OP, if you have a look at AVCs instead of APCs then see if your HR /payroll can divert your payments made thus far to an AVC account.  No medical assessment required, as AVCs aren't enhanced in the event of ill health retirement. 

Thanks for your reply. 
The supervisor at LGPS said that the process is different for buying extra years and buying lost pension and it seems their own staff are getting confused between the two and have given misleading advice. I get the impression that no one really buys extra years 🤣 and it comes to light no one ever at my workplace has, hence the issue 🤣🤣🤦‍♀️ 
I took the letter to my Dr and they seemed to suggest they might complete it for a £20 sum 🤞🤞 too good to be true, I hope not. 

If it's more or they won't do it, then I'll just have to get the money back and like you say I'll see if there is anyway I can get it moved to AVC account or if I can just forfeit it (I would rather just not have it back tbh 😆), although I imagine they have never heard this before and definitely won't be up for it. 

xylophone

The supervisor at LGPS said that the process is different for buying extra years and buying lost pension and it seems their own staff are getting confused between the two and have given misleading advice.

As Silvertabby has commented, it is not the place of the administrative staff to give advice but  they should certainly be able to give details of the process and to draw members' attention to the official guidance provided.

Your unfortunate experience points up a  truly abysmal failure in training,  given that the information available  on the LGPS web site (let alone that which must be available to the administrative staff in each authority), does mention the fact that a medical report may be required.

And why did nobody have the gumption to query the receipt of monies which could not be allocated?

See the link in my first post above which contains the link to the  Buying extra pension- terms and conditions.

it seems to me that you should make a formal complaint - at the very least, it might wake up those responsible for staff training.

Silvertabby

housebuyer143 said:

Silvertabby said:

housebuyer143 said:

hyubh said:

housebuyer143 said:

Frustratingly I wanted to do AVCs and was told to to APCs by payroll

That sounds odd - an LGPS AVC and APC are fundamentally different things. How far had you got setting things up with the AVC provider...?

I didn't get too far, filled in the form and then when I mentioned to payroll what I was doing, she basically swayed me on APCs, says it is better etc. 
I don't know about DB schemes much so took her word for it. I would have said no, the moment she mentioned paying for a medical letter.

I am going to have to send off for the form to sort these, and then what I'm going to do is make any extra payments I need to, direct into my personal pension and bypass these guys in future.

Haven't been at my work very long so it's very awkward and I don't want to cause waves, but this !!!!!! up is costing me money and stress.

Payroll telling a LGPS member that APCs are better than AVCs ! Ye Gods, that would have been a sackable offence in my day.  Even a LGPS administrator can't 'advise' - just explain the differences.

Reading through all of this thread, I'm afraid this is a right sorry  tale. Yes, an APC contract (ie, paying monthly over X years rather than by one lump sum) is subject to a satisfactory medical report, because someone who takes out a contract and then retires on  ill health shortly after would be awarded the full value of the (unpaid for) contract.  The medical assessment and the Dr's declaration (that they know of no reason why Mr X won't remain fit for work until the end of the contract) isn't covered by the NHS, so  not only will OP have to book a private appointment with their GP they will have to pay.  The average cost 6 years ago was at least £80, so expect it will be substantially more now. 

The LGPS administrators are really stuck between a rock and a hard place.  The forms and the medical assessment must be supplied before the contract can be set up, so I can understand them saying that they may have to refund.  Especially if OP opts not to pay for the private medical assessment. 

This is not 'advice' - just a suggestion.  OP, if you have a look at AVCs instead of APCs then see if your HR /payroll can divert your payments made thus far to an AVC account.  No medical assessment required, as AVCs aren't enhanced in the event of ill health retirement. 

Thanks for your reply. 
The supervisor at LGPS said that the process is different for buying extra years and buying lost pension and it seems their own staff are getting confused between the two and have given misleading advice. I get the impression that no one really buys extra years 🤣 and it comes to light no one ever at my workplace has, hence the issue 🤣🤣🤦‍♀️ 
I took the letter to my Dr and they seemed to suggest they might complete it for a £20 sum 🤞🤞 too good to be true, I hope not. 

If it's more or they won't do it, then I'll just have to get the money back and like you say I'll see if there is anyway I can get it moved to AVC account or if I can just forfeit it (I would rather just not have it back tbh 😆), although I imagine they have never heard this before and definitely won't be up for it. 

I'd be very surprised if you get the form signed for just £20!  Guessing that you were told that by a receptionist, who perhaps didn't realise that the Dr isn't just being asked to certify you as currently 'fit',  rather than the requisite 'knows of no reason why Mr X won't remain fit for work until the end of the contract'.

APCs are good value if you intend to work/not take your benefits before SPA, not so much if you want to increase your pension income with a view to retiring early, as your bought pension would be reduced for early payment in the same way as your main scheme benefits.

AVCs are popular because because of the 'tax relief in, tax free' (within HMRC limits) out.  Or, if you don't want to maximise your tax free cash, your AVC fund can be used to buy additional LGPS benefits at favourable rates.

Buying (back) lost pension usually means plugging any gaps when you were absent without pay. Such as strike days, but note that in this case you would have to pay your employer's contributions as well as your own. 

Hope you get sorted. 

housebuyer143

Silvertabby said:

housebuyer143 said:

Silvertabby said:

housebuyer143 said:

hyubh said:

housebuyer143 said:

Frustratingly I wanted to do AVCs and was told to to APCs by payroll

That sounds odd - an LGPS AVC and APC are fundamentally different things. How far had you got setting things up with the AVC provider...?

I didn't get too far, filled in the form and then when I mentioned to payroll what I was doing, she basically swayed me on APCs, says it is better etc. 
I don't know about DB schemes much so took her word for it. I would have said no, the moment she mentioned paying for a medical letter.

I am going to have to send off for the form to sort these, and then what I'm going to do is make any extra payments I need to, direct into my personal pension and bypass these guys in future.

Haven't been at my work very long so it's very awkward and I don't want to cause waves, but this !!!!!! up is costing me money and stress.

Payroll telling a LGPS member that APCs are better than AVCs ! Ye Gods, that would have been a sackable offence in my day.  Even a LGPS administrator can't 'advise' - just explain the differences.

Reading through all of this thread, I'm afraid this is a right sorry  tale. Yes, an APC contract (ie, paying monthly over X years rather than by one lump sum) is subject to a satisfactory medical report, because someone who takes out a contract and then retires on  ill health shortly after would be awarded the full value of the (unpaid for) contract.  The medical assessment and the Dr's declaration (that they know of no reason why Mr X won't remain fit for work until the end of the contract) isn't covered by the NHS, so  not only will OP have to book a private appointment with their GP they will have to pay.  The average cost 6 years ago was at least £80, so expect it will be substantially more now. 

The LGPS administrators are really stuck between a rock and a hard place.  The forms and the medical assessment must be supplied before the contract can be set up, so I can understand them saying that they may have to refund.  Especially if OP opts not to pay for the private medical assessment. 

This is not 'advice' - just a suggestion.  OP, if you have a look at AVCs instead of APCs then see if your HR /payroll can divert your payments made thus far to an AVC account.  No medical assessment required, as AVCs aren't enhanced in the event of ill health retirement. 

Thanks for your reply. 
The supervisor at LGPS said that the process is different for buying extra years and buying lost pension and it seems their own staff are getting confused between the two and have given misleading advice. I get the impression that no one really buys extra years 🤣 and it comes to light no one ever at my workplace has, hence the issue 🤣🤣🤦‍♀️ 
I took the letter to my Dr and they seemed to suggest they might complete it for a £20 sum 🤞🤞 too good to be true, I hope not. 

If it's more or they won't do it, then I'll just have to get the money back and like you say I'll see if there is anyway I can get it moved to AVC account or if I can just forfeit it (I would rather just not have it back tbh 😆), although I imagine they have never heard this before and definitely won't be up for it. 

I'd be very surprised if you get the form signed for just £20!  Guessing that you were told that by a receptionist, who perhaps didn't realise that the Dr isn't just being asked to certify you as currently 'fit',  rather than the requisite 'knows of no reason why Mr X won't remain fit for work until the end of the contract'.

APCs are good value if you intend to work/not take your benefits before SPA, not so much if you want to increase your pension income with a view to retiring early, as your bought pension would be reduced for early payment in the same way as your main scheme benefits.

AVCs are popular because because of the 'tax relief in, tax free' (within HMRC limits) out.  Or, if you don't want to maximise your tax free cash, your AVC fund can be used to buy additional LGPS benefits at favourable rates.

Buying (back) lost pension usually means plugging any gaps when you were absent without pay. Such as strike days, but note that in this case you would have to pay your employer's contributions as well as your own. 

Hope you get sorted. 

Where were you when I was deciding which scheme to set up 😆
If this all works out, it's only for a year and then I'll move to the AVC scheme. If it doesn't, then I'll still move to the AVC scheme and just have to accept the fall out and put this under the ever growing list of reasons not to trust anyone.

It so tedious how they do carers allowance, it's almost like a punishment for those who dare to work while claiming. When I get a bonus, everyone is happy apart from me, who has to tell CA and they reward me by taking my whole months award off me. 

I will report back, hopefully with a good outcome X 

housebuyer143

Update: I got the letter for the £20 fee 🎉 and have sent it onto the pension company. They are happy with this. Now just need payroll to reply to them confirming payment dates and APC set up 🙂
Can't fault my Drs, they really are the best surgery I have ever been with. 

xylophone

Good news just in time for Christmas!

Reg_Smeeton

Silvertabby said:

I'd be very surprised if you get the form signed for just £20!  Guessing that you were told that by a receptionist, who perhaps didn't realise that the Dr isn't just being asked to certify you as currently 'fit',  rather than the requisite 'knows of no reason why Mr X won't remain fit for work until the end of the contract'.

I paid £20 too when I applied for APCs in 2020