Council tax challenge (new build) - preparing for tribunal (England)

thomas01155

@lincroft1710 I spoke to the LO representative the other day regarding which properties were under band review. They didn't seem to be able to state outright if they had banding reviews on some of my evidence, but sounded more like general reviews, but not an official review.

I was a bit surprised that they have decided to start reviewing some now so close to the tribunal, they were aware of them for almost a year and have been discussed in detail with me and other residents in proposals and informal band reviews numerous times. It looks like it was somewhat tactical to start the review so close to the tribunal, is that normal?

It appears like they allowed me to use various properties as evidence up until this point and very recently changed their mind to make it harder for me when the tribunal occurs.

If there is a banding review on various properties I've submitted, does that mean it's outright dismissed as comparables by the tribunal, or can I still use it as evidence?

lincroft1710

It does sound as if the VOA have rather left things to the last minute, but a band can lawfully be reviewed at any time. 


Just present your evidence as you have found it, don't prejudge what the Tribunal may or may not do. The Tribunal will look at all the evidence presented and weigh it accordingly 

thomas01155

@lincroft1710 I have received a call from the VOA asking if I would settle for a band B. Once I sign the forms and send them over, then my appeal at the valuation tribunal will be withdrawn it seems.

I was wondering if there is any downside to settling before it goes to the tribunal? I'm worried that they might try and alter my band back up again, I have had such poor service since I started the process with the VOA.

The person on the phone says it looks like a mistake has been made and people have been put off rebanding it, due to the fallout it will cause. I think this reband is quite significant. But I'm concerned that the tribunal case won't get published online and therefore carry a lot less weight than if a tribunal were to decide it.

lincroft1710

Once the band is agreed that is it. The only occasions I have known where bands have been increased back up was where a caseworker dealing with non Tribunal cases and not familiar with the area reduced bands without proper research just to clear them. On return from sick leave the caseworker whose area it was increased them back up.as they should never have been reduced in the first place.


Even if the VOA did increase the band (which is extremely unlikely) you can appeal the notice of increase.


Your appeal has been settled, how it affects other bands is not your concern. If you let it run to a hearing, the VOA would doubtless just say "We now agree with Mr Thomas that this band should be reduced to Band B and ask the Tribunal confirm Band B". No need for any evidence to be heard.


They must have zero confidence in their evidence if they are now offering you Band B!!! 

thomas01155

lincroft1710 said:

Once the band is agreed that is it. The only occasions I have known where bands have been increased back up was where a caseworker dealing with non Tribunal cases and not familiar with the area reduced bands without proper research just to clear them. On return from sick leave the caseworker whose area it was increased them back up.as they should never have been reduced in the first place.


Even if the VOA did increase the band (which is extremely unlikely) you can appeal the notice of increase.


Your appeal has been settled, how it affects other bands is not your concern. If you let it run to a hearing, the VOA would doubtless just say "We now agree with Mr Thomas that this band should be reduced to Band B and ask the Tribunal confirm Band B". No need for any evidence to be heard.


They must have zero confidence in their evidence if they are now offering you Band B!!! 

I did find their evidence odd. They sent all band B properties for an original band D dispute, dropped their position to band C in their bundle to defend on. They didn't send one property currently in band C, but 8 band B properties, though a few of them did sell at band C prices but only just.

I think their evidence is trying to say that these band B properties are on the end of band B /C and as my property is of "modern specification" then it is higher band.

They seem to depend on "modern specification" as their main point.

I put in my bundle that some of these properties supplied sold at band B prices, had car park spaces, too far away, not on a dual carriage way, no commercial property below and they were different styles of construction to the more comparable ones I sent.

I'm going to allow the tribunal to run and have it confirmed at the hearing. This area is surrounded by larger or similar flats that are band A or B. I think a tribunal decision will add some clarity to this area and prevent the frustration of others nearby I had of getting to this point. I'm glad they have finally agreed that these properties should be band B. I think over 10 people sent proposals and many sent informal band reviews that were all declined, but I decided to stick it out.

thomas01155

For anyone else reading this thread, as I'm nearing the end of my process I thought i'd give some information on what I think has worked so far to get all the way from a D to now having the LO agreeing to a B pre-tribunal. I've read a few 100 decision notices, a mix of successful ones and ones that were declined, so far and found these things could be band significant (there is probably more): 

• Parking spaces
• “car free” developments - if you are a new build, check if the council has put your development in car free
• Location such as dual carriage / busy roads ways - compare the area of your property to that of the VOAs evidence. 
• Total stories of property
• High rise vs low rise flats - https://www.register-high-rise-building.service.gov.uk/public-register/search
• If you are comparing a house the style of detachment. Though say if you property is a terrace or semi detached, and you find a lower banded detached property nearby you could argue this one is better than your property. However this is a bit risky, as you might just end up increase their band and yours stays the same. Better to stick comparing like for like detachment as it is less risky.
• Lifts in flats. If your flat has a lift, then only include other flats that have lifts in your evidence. If your flat doesn't have a lift and you locate other flats that do that otherwise comparable you could use this to say your property should be in a lower band. However you might end up increasing the bands of the other flats that have a lift.

Sometimes interesting points in VTE decisions: 

- The VTE and VOA sometimes refer to things as "band significant" such as those above.

- The housing market had been falling since the 1990’s and was at its lowest in 1994. It then started to recover but did not achieve 1991 sales values until 1997/98. - I found this quite surprising to see in decisions, sometimes pricing from 1997 or 1998 is relied on some what. Property pricing in 1999 seems to shoot up so is not useful. Between 1992 - 1996 doesn't seem helpful either. Still 1991 (AVD) will always be the best if you want to look at older properties.

- In the absence of any pertinent sales evidence in the locality we should be aware that a property’s banding could be determined by tone, should the ‘tone of the list’ have been established. On this point, the High court case of Domblides vs Listing officer [2008], which indicates that it is not unreasonable to determine a band by reference to tone, and that the further away one moves from 1 April 1991, the more weight should be attached to tonal evidence. A tone of value/band is established when a number of properties, similar in size, character, quality, detachment and location were attributed the same level of assessment/band which, over time, had not been challenged.

Things never to do:

- Mass comparisons of data - I've never seen this work in any decision I've read, most likely wasting your time.
- Mass analysis of pricing trends of housing - similar to above, never seems to work.
- Indexation - do not include any information in relation the nationwide house price data - this will be shot down as in Domblides vs Listing officer.
- Don't compare houses and flats. It seems like it if a large house and a small flat are in the same band, then the flat should be decreased in banding, but this does not work as they aren't comparable in the eyes of the VOA or VTE.


Things that I think are good:
- Compare like for like, if you flat is purpose built, then find purpose built flats. If you flat is a conversion, then find conversions.

- A few 5-10 highly comparable properties with detailed information about comparable properties, with SQM, sale prices, total bedrooms, total bathrooms, features that are similar and properties that close by. If you can find some estate agent brochures online that will help to show how they are comparable, I asked a few estate agents for what number what property was.

- A handful older comparable properties to show the tone of the list is established and any good sale pricing from 1991, though it seems in some decisions that they can be swayed to 1997 or 1998 pricing even.

- Look very carefully at the VOAs evidence. If the property is not comparable in some way to yours point it out in your bundle.

- Look at the area the properties they have sent are in, if something makes it more desirable then you can point this out but will need to explained with some evidence or at least a very reasonable opinion. 

- Read a variety of VTE decisions, both where the appeal was agreed and where it was dismissed, they are all public online.

- Look for VTE decisions near your property.

Other tips:

- Don't worry if your proposal gets declined, continue with the the tribunal process. Many of the things the VOA said early on to me made it seem like I had no chance of getting my property rebanded down. But now it is looking like it will go from D to B.

- The VOA use something called EFA for flats and RCA for houses, so the amounts of sqm / sqf you see online won't match what the VOA believe it to be is. The VOA will give you the EFA / RCA for comparable properties if you ask generally and have the full address, as it is useful for the VTE to have the facts agreed before the tribunal and the tribunal will expect facts to be agreed upon like the size of comparable properties.

lincroft1710

You omitted the most important aspect of the Domblides case. The VOA asked for costs and Domblides was ordered to pay them about £8,000!


GEA (Gross External Area) is the more usual and easier understood term for RCA (Reduced Covered Area). EFA = Effective Floor Area.

thomas01155

It was a fairly brief tribunal, since matters were agreed beforehand that the property should be a B with the VOA .

The appeal was allowed and the property is to be changed from a D to a B. 

I would have settled by agreement much earlier in the process, but the VOA dragged it out until I had already made the bundle and expended significant time.

The way the VOA handled the process of nearly a year, caused me to lose trust in them, and I was worried that they might attempt to reserve their agreement at anytime, especially as they seem to have an ever shifting banding strategy / defence that has not been consistent in correspondence. Their tactics were odd, not what I expect the tax payers money to fund, such as stonewalling until one day before their bundle is due.