Phased return to work and annual leave

Undervalued

Hoenir said:

BabyChick_2 said:

what’s happened is that I’m going through a phased return to work but was given the option to either use some of my annual leave to achieve this and only work 3 x days per week for the next month, or work 3 days a week and have my salary reduced accordingly.

Perfectly reasonable from the employers perspective. Policy has to be consistent and applied fairly to all employees. In the workplace there cannot be seen to be instances of preferential treatment. Particularly where the sickness policy is already generous at the outset. There's no need for the employer to debate the issue further. 

Well, actually there can!

Apart from unlawful discrimination on protected grounds (e.g race religion, gender etc) it is not unlawful in itself to offer benefits, pay rises, enhanced terms etc to one employee and not another.

Wonka_2

BabyChick_2 said:

Savvy_Sue said:

BabyChick_2 said:

What if I don’t actually have any annual leave left? Would that mean I would automatically be put back into my full workload/role or face financial hardship because the reason I wasn’t at work was partly due to the health issues it created/and that are ongoing. 

Yes. And, while not wishing to be harsh, the link between health issues and a job aren't always as clear cut as they may feel to the employee. 

You didn't say whether you'd exhausted your entitlement to company sick pay yet? That might make a difference: I know last time I needed a phased return I did receive full pay, but I was nowhere near exhausting my entitlement to CSP. More recently I know another colleague DID use annual leave to enable them to receive full pay in a phased return, but they were out of both CSP and SSP. 

BabyChick_2 said:

I suppose my interpretation of a phased return to work is different to theirs….some of my role could be taken away and I would still be working my contracted hours… 

thanks for the advice - I don’t expect my employer to subsidise my wages, I’m expecting my employer to support their employee in a return to work that is successful. 

The question does have to be asked: what has changed or will change which will enable you to make that return to work successfully? You don't seem confident that there's much difference on the employer's side. 

I would assume I’m coming towards the end of my sick pay but would have no idea as I’ve had no welfare meetings, no sickness meetings or any OH meetings, in fact other than a few texts here and there I’ve not had anything official from them. 

Our company sick pay is full pay for 6months half pay for 3months - I’ve come back on the assumption my full pay is about to run out therefore I have returned to work. I simply cannot afford to go down to half pay however my condition will not improve and is ongoing and so aside from a phased return to work I will need regular breaks from work due to my condition (something I don’t think my employers have taken in to consideration. my employers are fully aware of my condition and have been aware of it since the first day of absence)  

in order for my return to be successful my workload needs to change. For a certain period of time I’d like my role to be given back to me bit by bit, so that I can get to a point whereby if I’m starting to struggle I can be aware of my limits and my employer will be able to make adjustments accordingly - whether that be with me in my current role or them employing someone else to do my role. My company are aware of its failings and the workload and stress we are under, they have started to implement some changes, however we are unlikely to see any benefit from this for at least 6-12months. 

 

So at any point during this absence have you engaged with Occupational Health team or had any discussions with your management regarding your issues and future ? 

As mentioned above it's a tough call to make a link between the employer/workplace being the cause of an illness - it can often be a contributory factor but don't hold out on it being as clear cut as you think.

In terms of the illness, without giving too much more detail, is it a diagnosis that would qualify for reasonable adjustments or something that will just require treatment/understanding from employer rather than having a legal right ?

As someone who's had a couple of similar length absences in my career (and I'm still there) there comes a point where you either work with the employer or you leave - having an ongoing battle helps no-one and tends to exacerbate any health issues  

elsien

Undervalued said:

TheSpiddalKid said:

A phased return is an agreement to work reduced hours. What you will be paid is then mainly a matter of policy and contract. It will be worth examining the sickness absence policy to see what is there about payment during a phased return. A lot of companies will say to use annual leave for those days.

Under the rules of SSP, if you are still entitled to it, you can claim the day rate for any days you normally work that you are not during a phased return, as long as a GP fit note covers this. 

If I read correctly the OP has been off sick for a year so SSP will be exhausted?

OP, there is no legal right, as such, to a "phased return to work" except possibly as a reasonable adjustment if the employee qualifies as disabled. Without a disability any phased return is a matter for company policy and negotiation. Again, unless disabled, whilst a GP or other doctor may recommend a phased return, the firm is not obliged to agree and even if they do it can be on whatever terms they may choose to offer.

I don't think that is the case. They said they have returned because their full pay is about to run out and they can't afford to go onto half pay.

OP, does your organisation have an HR department?

sheramber

One of my colleagues was off work for months due to stress.

She returned on a phased return and  used annual leave for the  half days she didn't work until returning full time.

Undervalued

elsien said:

Undervalued said:

TheSpiddalKid said:

A phased return is an agreement to work reduced hours. What you will be paid is then mainly a matter of policy and contract. It will be worth examining the sickness absence policy to see what is there about payment during a phased return. A lot of companies will say to use annual leave for those days.

Under the rules of SSP, if you are still entitled to it, you can claim the day rate for any days you normally work that you are not during a phased return, as long as a GP fit note covers this. 

If I read correctly the OP has been off sick for a year so SSP will be exhausted?

OP, there is no legal right, as such, to a "phased return to work" except possibly as a reasonable adjustment if the employee qualifies as disabled. Without a disability any phased return is a matter for company policy and negotiation. Again, unless disabled, whilst a GP or other doctor may recommend a phased return, the firm is not obliged to agree and even if they do it can be on whatever terms they may choose to offer.

I don't think that is the case. They said they have returned because their full pay is about to run out and they can't afford to go onto half pay.

OP, does your organisation have an HR department?

Full pay / half pay would be company sick pay, which might be contractual but these days is most likely discretionary.

SSP (about £100 per week), the cost of which is met by the company despite the name, would form part of the full pay she received but is paid for a maximum of six months.

BrassicWoman

You seem to assume it is ok for the employer to keep funding you to do no work. They have costs as much as you do. They are not there to replace the DWP.

You will have accrued annual leave while off sick; it does seem reasonable to use that to aid your return to work.

As for not being bothered to read the policy.. come on. You can't properly structure a request if you haven't checked the boundaries. Go get a copy .

Hoenir

Undervalued said:

Hoenir said:

BabyChick_2 said:

what’s happened is that I’m going through a phased return to work but was given the option to either use some of my annual leave to achieve this and only work 3 x days per week for the next month, or work 3 days a week and have my salary reduced accordingly.

Perfectly reasonable from the employers perspective. Policy has to be consistent and applied fairly to all employees. In the workplace there cannot be seen to be instances of preferential treatment. Particularly where the sickness policy is already generous at the outset. There's no need for the employer to debate the issue further. 

Well, actually there can!

Apart from unlawful discrimination on protected grounds (e.g race religion, gender etc) it is not unlawful in itself to offer benefits, pay rises, enhanced terms etc to one employee and not another.

That's not the point of discussion on this thread though. My comment should be read in context not misconstrued. 

chrisbur

Undervalued said:

elsien said:

Undervalued said:

TheSpiddalKid said:

A phased return is an agreement to work reduced hours. What you will be paid is then mainly a matter of policy and contract. It will be worth examining the sickness absence policy to see what is there about payment during a phased return. A lot of companies will say to use annual leave for those days.

Under the rules of SSP, if you are still entitled to it, you can claim the day rate for any days you normally work that you are not during a phased return, as long as a GP fit note covers this. 

If I read correctly the OP has been off sick for a year so SSP will be exhausted?

OP, there is no legal right, as such, to a "phased return to work" except possibly as a reasonable adjustment if the employee qualifies as disabled. Without a disability any phased return is a matter for company policy and negotiation. Again, unless disabled, whilst a GP or other doctor may recommend a phased return, the firm is not obliged to agree and even if they do it can be on whatever terms they may choose to offer.

I don't think that is the case. They said they have returned because their full pay is about to run out and they can't afford to go onto half pay.

OP, does your organisation have an HR department?

Full pay / half pay would be company sick pay, which might be contractual but these days is most likely discretionary.

SSP (about £100 per week), the cost of which is met by the company despite the name, would form part of the full pay she received but is paid for a maximum of six months.

SSP is payable for 28 weeks after the first three waiting days, but on the details so far we do not know if there was a linking period before this which would have reduced the current entitlement nor if the new work pattern of three unknown days would result a PIW being formed which is required for linking.

BabyChick_2

BrassicWoman said:

You seem to assume it is ok for the employer to keep funding you to do no work. They have costs as much as you do. They are not there to replace the DWP.

You will have accrued annual leave while off sick; it does seem reasonable to use that to aid your return to work.

As for not being bothered to read the policy.. come on. You can't properly structure a request if you haven't checked the boundaries. Go get a copy .

Have you actually red my posts or simply taken snippets and added your own spin on it? No where in any of my posts have I said I expect my employers to fund me sitting at home and doing no work. 

I do not understand you saying I expect my employers to replace DWP that would be you assuming I want to claim benefits….that’s rather n odd comment to make given the fact I posted bout my full time employment 🤔

I’ve read the sickness policy back to front top to bottom - I don’t manage a team and not know what the  company sickness policy is. No where in our sickness policy does it state how a phased return has to be taken nor does it state anything about reduced wages etc. It was tongue and cheek when I said can’t be bothered with the policy as for the last 5 months my employers have not followed one single sentence of their down sickness policy so I find it amusing that they now choose to follow their own policy (of which they seem to have added their own terms to it so it interprets something entirely different- making out like their re doing me a favour. 

I’ve handled phased returns to work in my company for the staff that sit underneath me and to date not one of them has had any wages deducted and none have had any annual used to facilitate a reduction in work.pad/hours worked - which is why I find it odd that I’m being subjected to this sort of treatment. 

BrassicWoman

They have the option to say, "if you cannot do all the job, stay home and do not do any of the job."
They are being flexible.
I recommend you meet them half way.
Asking you to use leave is in no way outrageous; it is very common practice.