Pension overpayment - provider wants to take back £20k

penners324

Lodge a complaint to the fos, pension regulator, your MP, etc etc.

The pension company’s error shouldn't be your concern 

Exodi

Just to consider all options, it may be possible the difference is due to a currency mistake. We've seen it before.

E.g. let's say your pension was valued at $115,238.10 (equivalent to £95,238.10 at exchange rate of 1.21).

As they are paying your pension in pounds, let's say they make a mistake and instead paid you £115,238.10. In this scenario the difference is £20,000 on a relatively small pot.

Would be easy enough for the OP to check this.

leosayer

LHW99 said:

I transferred to a private pension plan, after taking professional advice based on the transfer value I was offered.

Have you had any contact from the adviser regarding this, or only from the DB pension Co?

OP did your advisor recommend the DB transfer?

They really are in the best position to argue on your behalf based on their knowledge of your financial circumstances.

dunstonh

penners324 said:

Lodge a complaint to the fos, pension regulator, your MP, etc etc.

The pension company’s error shouldn't be your concern 

You don't automatically gain legal entitlement due to an error.  What if it was £20k short?   Is that just tough luck because the pension company's error shouldn't be your concern?

Qyburn

Exodi said:

Would be easy enough for the OP to check this.

What difference would it make second guessing why the trustees might have make their error, are you suggesting this would make the OP happy to pay that back?

xylophone

What if it was £20k short?   Is that just tough luck because the pension company's error shouldn't be your concern?

The error is still that of the professional person who made it and the error lies with him or the firm that engaged him.

The OP is the victim of that error, whether it is an over payment or an underpayment.

The victim of the error should not have to suffer for it.

If he has been underpaid, he should be compensated.

If he has been overpaid, if he is able to repay without detriment to his own situation, then morally he should make the repayment (without interest and on easy terms if necessary).

If any action taken with regard to the overpaid funds is irrevocable and he cannot repay, then the person who made the error (or their insurers) should take the hit.

Exodi

Qyburn said:

Exodi said:

Would be easy enough for the OP to check this.

What difference would it make second guessing why the trustees might have make their error, are you suggesting this would make the OP happy to pay that back?

Yes I am. Mistakes happen, we are all human.

If it is obvious what the mistake was, and the OP understands and agrees the mistake, then there is little reason to dig your heels in (assuming the tax ramifications are corrected).

Don't get me wrong, it is entirely predictable on every 'overpayment' thread that some posters will hold the view 'well tough, their mistake, you should get to keep the money!' but this view is often not seated in reality.

As dunstonh above says:

dunstonh said:

penners324 said:

Lodge a complaint to the fos, pension regulator, your MP, etc etc.

The pension company’s error shouldn't be your concern 

You don't automatically gain legal entitlement due to an error.  What if it was £20k short?   Is that just tough luck because the pension company's error shouldn't be your concern?

In the first instance, I would just ask the OP to rule out the currency thing, as there was a very recent example of exactly the same happening.

Pat38493

What's astonishing is that there are not stronger controls in place to prevent such overpayments.  What if for example the person who received the payment had spent all the money, or died and left it to charity, or emigrated to Australia and transferred all the money there?  Good luck to the trustees getting the money back.

Exodi

xylophone said:

What if it was £20k short?   Is that just tough luck because the pension company's error shouldn't be your concern?

The error is still that of the professional person who made it and the error lies with him or the firm that engaged him.

The OP is the victim of that error, whether it is an over payment or an underpayment.

The victim of the error should not have to suffer for it.

If he has been underpaid, he should be compensated.

If he has been overpaid, if he is able to repay without detriment to his own situation, then morally he should make the repayment (without interest and on easy terms if necessary).

If any action taken with regard to the overpaid funds is irrevocable and he cannot repay, then the person who made the error (or their insurers) should take the hit.

Agreed. And I think the three of us are in agreement and hold the same view on that-

That the money should be paid back if it is found to have been overpaid, but it should not put out the OP by doing so (e.g. agreeing payment plans if needed, etc).

This is different to suggestions in this thread that the money should not be repaid at all because it was not the OP's mistake, which is nonsense.

penners324 said:

Lodge a complaint to the fos, pension regulator, your MP, etc etc.

The pension company’s error shouldn't be your concern 

Pat38493

Exodi said:

xylophone said:

What if it was £20k short?   Is that just tough luck because the pension company's error shouldn't be your concern?

The error is still that of the professional person who made it and the error lies with him or the firm that engaged him.

The OP is the victim of that error, whether it is an over payment or an underpayment.

The victim of the error should not have to suffer for it.

If he has been underpaid, he should be compensated.

If he has been overpaid, if he is able to repay without detriment to his own situation, then morally he should make the repayment (without interest and on easy terms if necessary).

If any action taken with regard to the overpaid funds is irrevocable and he cannot repay, then the person who made the error (or their insurers) should take the hit.

Agreed. And I think the three of us are in agreement and hold the same view on that-

That the money should be paid back if it is found to have been overpaid, but it should not put out the OP by doing so (e.g. agreeing payment plans if needed, etc).

This is different to suggestions in this thread that the money should not be repaid at all because it was not the OP's mistake, which is nonsense.

penners324 said:

Lodge a complaint to the fos, pension regulator, your MP, etc etc.

The pension company’s error shouldn't be your concern 

I have to say I disagree.  I mean, I know that what you are saying is the current legal situation.

However, in my opinion, overpayments (not underpayments) should simply not happen and everything should be checked, double checked, checked 10 times if that's what is needed.  Once the provider has written an official letter saying - this is the mount you are getting etc, it should be just as binding as an employment contract - your employer can't suddenly turn round and say - oh, we made a mistake in our market surveys and offered you too much salary so we're just going to cut your salary - ok?

The reason is - people are making big life decisions based on the data provided.  As mentioned by the OP, they would not have made that decision if they had been given correct data in the first place.  

I am pretty sure that if the company that does the calculations had to pay the mistake when there was an overpayment, they would change their processes pretty quick to ensure that this can't happen.