Can you live solely off state pension?

pseudodox

Where did the ability/inability to manage one's own finances stem from?  I got my ability from my parents, who got it from their parents - no-one in my family ever had much to spare, but no-one got into debt.  Everyone benefits from education now up until the age of 18 - money and life skills should be part of that education, especially for thiose who get no example to follow at home.  My example of someone in the queue at the food bank who apparently had money for tattoos, bling, fashion clothes, iPhones along with the example above of someone putting beer and ciggies before their child's school clothes are examples of people who are not really poor, but they are tarring the really struggling with the same brush.  Foodbanks are such a good idea, but they are abused by the likes of those benefit cheats in Benidorm on the sick.

But I wonder if the top of the slippery slide was the descent into living on credit and max-ing out credit cards because everyone wanted everything they saw other had and wanted stuff today.  My family could not afford a colour TV and Dad was not prepared to go into debt to get one.  He could not afford a car until I was in my teens, when a he bought a second hand one outright, having saved for it.  I could not have a record player like a lot of my friends because as Dad observed even if he was prepared to buy the player where was the money for records coming from?  But I had Radio Caroline and the new Radio One on my tranny so I never felt I missed out.  I saved a lot of my pocket money so I could buy more than comics, pop and sweets and earned money from age 11 to save for my holiday spends.  Today was my SP day and because I have been careful the last month there was still money left over at the end of that month, not month left over at the end of the money!  So I gave myself a treat of a new pair of jeans AND a bar of good chocolate.  They are as satisfying to me as any meal out or foreign holiday.  The jeans will last several years.  The chocolate . . . . . . will be enjoyed.

And hasn't the housing market created a "us and them" society?  Houses are no longer purchased purely as homes - they are assets, a means to make money.  And must be furnished with the latest items and gadgets.  As financial institutions have been amenable to lending more and more in relation to people's incomes the price of property has escalated.  And buy to lets are now a business for many who years back would have been content just to own their own home and not the roofs over other heads.  Recent years saw people getting on the housing ladder higher up than they might have if interest rates had not been so low.  They wanted to be as high if not higher than their peers.  And now they cannot afford to be up there, cannot climb higher, and in many cases cannot downsize because they cannot sell.  And who really wants to move from their modern detached with garage and garden to a Victorian mid-terrace opening onto the pavement?  Not enough "affordable" housing is being built, which pushes people to buy above their comfort level.  Many in rented are trapped by escalating rents, which in many case cost more per month than a mortgage would.  Something has gone horribly wrong.

CRISPIANNE3

I could not live off my state pension. However because I have always been careful and paid the mortgage off before I retired I live reasonably well. Also have 2 final salary pensions.

zagfles

dealyboy said:

@zagfles said:

dealyboy said:

[Deleted User] said:

I will longer contribute or follow this thread as it has taken a rather ugly turn. It is so easy post stories to condemn a minority of people who claim they do not have enough who  just need to manage their money with more care. It allows those with enough to continue to live their cosy lives  blissfully ignoring the fact that many more are genuinely finding things difficult. 

Fair comment @[Deleted User]. Just to mention that I have really appreciated the advice and kindness you have shown to those less fortunate than ourselves, over on the 'Over 50s' board.

There are indeed many who do struggle to get by for various reasons, they and their dependants are often overlooked by wider society that believes one size fits all.

I don't think anyone has said "one size fits all". Some people have posted their experience, without stating it applies to everyone. "Various reasons" is the key point. Seems some people object to some of those reasons being discussed.

" [strugglers] ... overlooked by wider society that believes one size fits all."

First the glib point, we in this thread, indeed on this board and the MSE forum as a whole, I would say is a narrower society.

When I refer to 'wider society' I am thinking of the organisational organism of the state to which we as people defer and understand as civilized, this defines what is and what is not standard or normal. Wider society believes the state looks after those in need through the welfare system and health service, such that nobody need suffer. It also believes the state will have such checks and sanctions to detect and deter abuse of the system,.

I think we know different.

"Wider society" doesn't have just one view. There are lots of people who certainly don't defer to the state and some, indeed many, who believe the state is not civilised, and simply doesn't care, and the govt is composed of cruel heartless people who only care about enriching their cronies. 

Anyone who understand the benefits system in the UK and compares to other countries will know different. Many other countries have far more generous contributory systems (so better unemployment benefit, state pension etc for those who've paid in) but worse means tested benefits, and means tested benefits target those in most need rather than those who've contributed. 

Of course any system which caters to millions must have general rules and structures which simply can't cater to every individual circumstance, and so there are holes. And indeed abuse as you mention, where some people feign or exaggerate a disability for instance. Again, this is something some people will attempt to silence mention of, as if mentioning it exists, or one example of it, implies it applies to all claimants.

But back to the point, some people will suffer because of external factors, others because of internal. It is valid and indeed helpful to acknowledge both exist and discussion of peoples' experience shouldn't be censored by those who think giving their genuine experience somehow is wrong because others aren't capable of understanding it's just a single example and not an attempt at implying it appies to every single similar person.

Yes MSE posters are a narrower society - and one which, as the name implies, tend to have the skills to help those struggle with money. Money Saving Expert. The name says it all. People here have the skills to save money. The ability to save money is very helpful to those who struggle to make ends meet. Far more helpful than encouraging a victim mentality that all your problems are caused by external factors like greedy employers, uncaring politicians etc. Which is all you're left with if people try to close down discussion that some people may need to look internally rather than externally.

dealyboy

Thank you @zagfles ... sometimes just ticking the box is insufficient.

Suzycoll

scoobydoo8 said:

As per title, do you think you would be able to live just off a full state pension, currently £203pw /£10,6k per year, reasonably comfortably if you already owe your own home?

I think I could but then again I don't really do a lot! 

yes I could live off my state pension at todays rates (without any rent or mortgage) . It would tough but definitely doable . I suppose it all depends on peoples lifestyle choices. 

hornetgirl

I think it's just about doable but I'd struggle. If I didn't have a car and the associated expenses then I think I could do it.

barnstar2077

pseudodox said:

Where did the ability/inability to manage one's own finances stem from?  I got my ability from my parents, who got it from their parents - no-one in my family ever had much to spare, but no-one got into debt.  Everyone benefits from education now up until the age of 18 - money and life skills should be part of that education, especially for thiose who get no example to follow at home.  My example of someone in the queue at the food bank who apparently had money for tattoos, bling, fashion clothes, iPhones along with the example above of someone putting beer and ciggies before their child's school clothes are examples of people who are not really poor, but they are tarring the really struggling with the same brush.  Foodbanks are such a good idea, but they are abused by the likes of those benefit cheats in Benidorm on the sick.

But I wonder if the top of the slippery slide was the descent into living on credit and max-ing out credit cards because everyone wanted everything they saw other had and wanted stuff today.  My family could not afford a colour TV and Dad was not prepared to go into debt to get one.  He could not afford a car until I was in my teens, when a he bought a second hand one outright, having saved for it.  I could not have a record player like a lot of my friends because as Dad observed even if he was prepared to buy the player where was the money for records coming from?  But I had Radio Caroline and the new Radio One on my tranny so I never felt I missed out.  I saved a lot of my pocket money so I could buy more than comics, pop and sweets and earned money from age 11 to save for my holiday spends.  Today was my SP day and because I have been careful the last month there was still money left over at the end of that month, not month left over at the end of the money!  So I gave myself a treat of a new pair of jeans AND a bar of good chocolate.  They are as satisfying to me as any meal out or foreign holiday.  The jeans will last several years.  The chocolate . . . . . . will be enjoyed.

And hasn't the housing market created a "us and them" society?  Houses are no longer purchased purely as homes - they are assets, a means to make money.  And must be furnished with the latest items and gadgets.  As financial institutions have been amenable to lending more and more in relation to people's incomes the price of property has escalated.  And buy to lets are now a business for many who years back would have been content just to own their own home and not the roofs over other heads.  Recent years saw people getting on the housing ladder higher up than they might have if interest rates had not been so low.  They wanted to be as high if not higher than their peers.  And now they cannot afford to be up there, cannot climb higher, and in many cases cannot downsize because they cannot sell.  And who really wants to move from their modern detached with garage and garden to a Victorian mid-terrace opening onto the pavement?  Not enough "affordable" housing is being built, which pushes people to buy above their comfort level.  Many in rented are trapped by escalating rents, which in many case cost more per month than a mortgage would.  Something has gone horribly wrong.

I think the problem is that house prices are too high.  If people weren't allowed to buy dozens of residential houses in order to rent them out, then house prices would be lower.  If there was a cap on the number of homes you could buy, then surely it would have to bring down prices, and free up housing for people.

Don't even get me started on the whole "Help to Buy" idea!  House prices are too expensive and their solution is to lend people a proportion of the money?  What does that do I wonder..  Oh yeah, it keeps the prices high!

I know too many good, hard working, honest people that just can't get away from the renting rut.  

MarkCarnage

Phossy said:

Most recent government data I could find  indicates many people cope on a full State pension or less, though they may have access to other benefits too. Source: Pensioners' Incomes Series: Financial year 2021 to 2022 - GOV.UK (www.gov.uk)

This only shows the distribution of income from State Pension and does not include other benefits (which you note), nor does it include other sources of income including occupational pensions, personal pensions or investment income. Therefore I don't think it could be said that it indicates that many pensioners cope on full State Pension or less. 

QrizB

MarkCarnage said:

This only shows the distribution of income from State Pension and does not include other benefits (which you note), nor does it include other sources of income including occupational pensions, personal pensions or investment income. Therefore I don't think it could be said that it indicates that many pensioners cope on full State Pension or less. 

How about the data table though?

Table 4.1 gives quintiles of pensioner incomes for single pensioners and couples.

Net income before housing costs, £ per week:

• Single pensioner quintiles: 153 / 222 / 277 / 355 / 507 mean 323
• Pensioner couple quintiles: 287 / 410 / 519 / 683 / 1041 mean 640
  

From those stats it seems that the least-well-off 20% of single pensioners, and married couples, are living on less than one full NSP per person.

hugheskevi

QrizB said:

MarkCarnage said:

This only shows the distribution of income from State Pension and does not include other benefits (which you note), nor does it include other sources of income including occupational pensions, personal pensions or investment income. Therefore I don't think it could be said that it indicates that many pensioners cope on full State Pension or less. 

How about the data table though?

Table 4.1 gives quintiles of pensioner incomes for single pensioners and couples.

Net income before housing costs, £ per week:

• Single pensioner quintiles: 153 / 222 / 277 / 355 / 507 mean 323
• Pensioner couple quintiles: 287 / 410 / 519 / 683 / 1041 mean 640
  

From those stats it seems that the least-well-off 20% of single pensioners, and married couples, are living on less than one full NSP per person.

There is more recent data available for this, from 2021/22. Table 4.1 from 2021/22 shows:

Net income before housing costs, £ per week:

• Single pensioner quintiles: 159 / 233 / 288 / 372 / 530 mean 337
• Pensioner couple quintiles: 299 / 428 / 544 / 715 / 1082 mean 665

Interestingly, the income of the lowest fifth of single pensioners actually fell slightly in real terms over the ten-year period to 2022, both before and after housing costs.