Employment Tribunal Process

ruudy

Hi,

I'm hoping for some advice regarding this process. I'm enquiring on the behalf of a family member who has recently raised a claim for discrimination. He had to prepare and submit the ET1 on his own, as his Union would not get involved at this stage. He was advised that the union would evaluate his case only after he submits the ET1 and after the ET3 is returned by the respondent. We both had our concerns about him preparing this ET1 because (1) he certainly doesn't have the legal qualifications to present his case anywhere near as strongly as you would hope, and (2) he's very unwell with all of the stress. However, I helped him where possible and he got the form submitted

The Employment Tribunal very quickly responded to confirm that they have accepted his claim/ET1. Now here's where I'm struggling. The most unexpected part of this is that they have set a Preliminary Hearing for just over a months time and supplied another form (agenda) with a further list of confusing questions to be sent back within about 4 weeks. I would be keen to know if this is typical or standard procedure? We were under the impression that there would be a period of time where nothing happens while he waits for the respondent's ET3 response. After this we thought we could then get the union's solicitors to assess his case and hopefully then help him out with completing these forms, and representing him at the preliminary hearing. The union aren't the quickest to respond, therefore we don't currently know where things stand with this in terms of representation.

The thought of him having to represent himself at a Preliminary Hearing in his current mental condition is frankly quite terrifying and doesn't seem right at all. I don't understand how a person can be expected to get healthier with such weight and worry on their mind. What sort of expectation is there at these Preliminary Hearings? For example if you don't know, or can't remember of the top of your head is it looked at negatively?

As I said, we thought we had a reasonable grasp of the process, however, the preliminary hearing (and preceding paperwork) being inserted has thrown us both off.

Would be very grateful for the advice of those who know a lot more on these matters than we do.

Many Thanks.

turnitround

Have the union been involved at any stage?

turnitround

I thought I remembered your name from another thread. Is this the same person that is trying to get retired on health grounds from Royal Mail? 

If so I can understand why the union are not helping. My husband got ill health retirement from Royal Mail a few years ago after an accident at work. He had no luck with the union at all, their solicitors prepared paperwork which had him working at a different depot and had incorrect dates on. They changed his solicitor to a different one who was still no help at ll.
He eventually  got his own solicitor privately.

ruudy

turnitround said:

Have the union been involved at any stage?

Only to let him know that they won't be helping him with the ET1 preparation and that they can't assess the strength of his case until much further down the road.

turnitround said:

I thought I remembered your name from another thread. Is this the same person that is trying to get retired on health grounds from Royal Mail? 

If so I can understand why the union are not helping. My husband got ill health retirement from Royal Mail a few years ago after an accident at work. He had no luck with the union at all, their solicitors prepared paperwork which had him working at a different depot and had incorrect dates on. They changed his solicitor to a different one who was still no help at ll.
He eventually  got his own solicitor privately.

Hi. Yes it is me 😁. It's related but two slightly different matters if that makes sense.

Oh no. That's not inspiring confidence in me at all. I don't think another solicitor is even an option in this case as I don't think he would be able to afford it financially. 

Marcon

There's loads of useful stuff here: https://www.lawclinic.org.uk/ (even for those not in Scotland), in particular a summary of how the ET process works: https://www.lawclinic.org.uk/employment-law-resources

ruudy

Marcon said:

There's loads of useful stuff here: https://www.lawclinic.org.uk/ (even for those not in Scotland), in particular a summary of how the ET process works: https://www.lawclinic.org.uk/employment-law-resources

Hi Marcon.

Yes, it's fair to say I'm very familiar with these docs as they were the basis for the ET1 that he prepared. A brilliant resource 😁. Nobody else was really helping, so these were a godsend in terms of setting out the structure and indicating where the focus should be when pulling things together.

They are also the basis for why we are a quite confused at the moment too. Section 3 comes before Section 4 (Preliminary Hearing) and explains the ET3 process. It indicates that the respondent has 28 days to respond and appears to set the claimants expectation thay they might not hear from the Employmemt Tribunal for around 5 weeks from their ET1 submission.

Based on this and also the Unions claim that they will assess things when the ET3 comes back, we really weren't expecting a letter within days about a Preliminary Hearing, never mind further workload to be completed within a matter of weeks.

The biggest concern of course is that there's no legal representation to get him through even this Preliminary Process. In fact the unions solicitors may not even look at it until after the ET3. 

In our mind based on these slides and Unions previous advice, the process was:

ET1>Acknowledgement>ET3 response > Union Merit Assessment > Agendas > Preliminary Hearing. 

The last two he was hopeful would be taken over by solicitors.

This allowed him to get Union lawyer input and a decision before any need to go before a court/hearing.

The way it has panned out is different and appears to put him in a postion where he needs to prepare the Agenda and he needs to go to the hearing (which I can't see being possible). I'm just not sure if the process is the norm as it doesn't appear typical based on the slides and what the Union said before he prepared and submitted the ET1 

We have been pursuing the Union for advice on this but they are not very forthcoming. It's quite concerning. 

Marcon

Can you escalate to someone more senior within the Union? I'd expect them to be much more supportive and pro-active, especially where a member has significant health issues.

ruudy

Marcon said:

Can you escalate to someone more senior within the Union? I'd expect them to be much more supportive and pro-active, especially where a member has significant health issues.

You would expect so, particularly when membership fees have been getting paid for 40 years, but they are very difficult to get to engage with things. It seems to be the case at all levels. He has asked for legal referral again recently following this recent development, but nothing so far. 

Undervalued

ruudy said:

Marcon said:

Can you escalate to someone more senior within the Union? I'd expect them to be much more supportive and pro-active, especially where a member has significant health issues.

You would expect so, particularly when membership fees have been getting paid for 40 years, but they are very difficult to get to engage with things. It seems to be the case at all levels. He has asked for legal referral again recently following this recent development, but nothing so far. 

This can be a problem. Whilst I would always advise employees to be a member of a union it is important to understand that this can happen. A union's function is primarily to work for the benefit (as they see it) of the membership as a whole, which isn't always the same thing as the interests of an individual member.

Does he have any legal advice available as part of his house insurance? Sometimes people don't realise that they have cover.

Some solicitors offer a free half hour appointment (or maybe at a very reduced fixed fee). If he is really focused with all the information clearly set out it is amazing how useful that can be.

There is also the possibility of "no win no fee" depending on the strength of his case and its likely value if won. However be very very careful that he understands all of the implications, terms and conditions before agreeing to proceed on that basis.

Finally, in any assessment (union or private solicitor) it is important he tells them everything and not just the "good bits" (from his point of view)!

ruudy

Undervalued said:

ruudy said:

Marcon said:

Can you escalate to someone more senior within the Union? I'd expect them to be much more supportive and pro-active, especially where a member has significant health issues.

You would expect so, particularly when membership fees have been getting paid for 40 years, but they are very difficult to get to engage with things. It seems to be the case at all levels. He has asked for legal referral again recently following this recent development, but nothing so far. 

This can be a problem. Whilst I would always advise employees to be a member of a union it is important to understand that this can happen. A union's function is primarily to work for the benefit (as they see it) of the membership as a whole, which isn't always the same thing as the interests of an individual member.

Does he have any legal advice available as part of his house insurance? Sometimes people don't realise that they have cover.

Some solicitors offer a free half hour appointment (or maybe at a very reduced fixed fee). If he is really focused with all the information clearly set out it is amazing how useful that can be.

There is also the possibility of "no win no fee" depending on the strength of his case and its likely value if won. However be very very careful that he understands all of the implications, terms and conditions before agreeing to proceed on that basis.

Finally, in any assessment (union or private solicitor) it is important he tells them everything and not just the "good bits" (from his point of view)!

Not surprising to hear that. I think most employees in his work are upset with their Union across the country. 

I'll ask him to have a look at his home insurance. That's a good point.

Yes, the no-win no fee would need to be the next step if the Union refuse to assist. However, my concern is that solicitors don't see these types of cases as particularly lucrative? Although there is also likely to be a personal injury claim added. The problem with the half hour consultation would be that he is the complete opposite of focused. He can't concentrate. He's highly stressed and highly anxious. He doesn't understand much about what is happening and why. He had help with the ET1 but it was extremely difficult to nail down.

He didn't even really understand the extent of which he was being discriminated against until he found himself off work and at counselling where everyone at the sessions pointed it out to him. He's Just a very old school guy who doesn't necessarily understand the laws etc. and just did what he was told for a lot longer than he should have. 

lincroft1710

In the circumstances I would avoid a NWNF solicitor.  It is a misnomer, as you usually have to take out insurance to cover the solicitor's costs should they not win. 


You say your friend is unfocused. Is this just a temporary state of mind or will his concentration hopefully improve? An ET can be very, very stressful.