Are new payments into a pension that has already been crystallised uncrystallised?

michaels

Suppose you have a 100k pot and crystallise the whole pot and take a 25k TFLS.

You are still able to make new contributions (possibly the MPAA applies?).  Do these new contributions form effectively a separate uncrystallised pot from which 25% TFLS can be taken at some point?

HappyHarry

Yes.
The pension provider will usually show you both pots separately - I.e. your crystallised pot and your uncrystallised pot.

HappyHarry

Just to add - if you only take the 25% tax free then the MPAA won’t be triggered.

Albermarle

HappyHarry said:

Yes.
The pension provider will usually show you both pots separately - I.e. your crystallised pot and your uncrystallised pot.

Some of the retail investment platforms often mentioned on this forum do not have separate pots, but just one pot with a % figure available of how much of the pot is crystallised.

Steve_666_

Albermarle said:

HappyHarry said:

Yes.
The pension provider will usually show you both pots separately - I.e. your crystallised pot and your uncrystallised pot.

Some of the retail investment platforms often mentioned on this forum do not have separate pots, but just one pot with a % figure available of how much of the pot is crystallised.

so if a 100K pot shows 20% crystallised (20K), and over time the pot grows to 200K, is it still 20% cystallised or does the amount crystallised stay fixed at 20k and now shows 10%

HappyHarry

Steve_666_ said:

Albermarle said:

HappyHarry said:

Yes.
The pension provider will usually show you both pots separately - I.e. your crystallised pot and your uncrystallised pot.

Some of the retail investment platforms often mentioned on this forum do not have separate pots, but just one pot with a % figure available of how much of the pot is crystallised.

so if a 100K pot shows 20% crystallised (20K), and over time the pot grows to 200K, is it still 20% cystallised or does the amount crystallised stay fixed at 20k and now shows 10%

The crystallised part and the non crystallised parts can grow at different rates depending on their underlying investments. 

In your example the  £100k pot that is 20% crystallised might, for example, grow to being a pot of £200k with 18.65% crystallised. 

Albermarle

Steve_666_ said:

Albermarle said:

HappyHarry said:

Yes.
The pension provider will usually show you both pots separately - I.e. your crystallised pot and your uncrystallised pot.

Some of the retail investment platforms often mentioned on this forum do not have separate pots, but just one pot with a % figure available of how much of the pot is crystallised.

so if a 100K pot shows 20% crystallised (20K), and over time the pot grows to 200K, is it still 20% cystallised or does the amount crystallised stay fixed at 20k and now shows 10%

Steve_666_ said:

Albermarle said:

HappyHarry said:

Yes.
The pension provider will usually show you both pots separately - I.e. your crystallised pot and your uncrystallised pot.

Some of the retail investment platforms often mentioned on this forum do not have separate pots, but just one pot with a % figure available of how much of the pot is crystallised.

so if a 100K pot shows 20% crystallised (20K), and over time the pot grows to 200K, is it still 20% cystallised or does the amount crystallised stay fixed at 20k and now shows 10%

The crystallised part and the non crystallised parts can grow at different rates depending on their underlying investments. 

In your example the  £100k pot that is 20% crystallised might, for example, grow to being a pot of £200k with 18.65% crystallised. 

With these platforms that do not split the pot, then the crystallised and uncrystallised % are in exactly the same investments.

Doctor_Who

Albermarle said:

Steve_666_ said:

Albermarle said:

HappyHarry said:

Yes.
The pension provider will usually show you both pots separately - I.e. your crystallised pot and your uncrystallised pot.

Some of the retail investment platforms often mentioned on this forum do not have separate pots, but just one pot with a % figure available of how much of the pot is crystallised.

so if a 100K pot shows 20% crystallised (20K), and over time the pot grows to 200K, is it still 20% cystallised or does the amount crystallised stay fixed at 20k and now shows 10%

Steve_666_ said:

Albermarle said:

HappyHarry said:

Yes.
The pension provider will usually show you both pots separately - I.e. your crystallised pot and your uncrystallised pot.

Some of the retail investment platforms often mentioned on this forum do not have separate pots, but just one pot with a % figure available of how much of the pot is crystallised.

so if a 100K pot shows 20% crystallised (20K), and over time the pot grows to 200K, is it still 20% cystallised or does the amount crystallised stay fixed at 20k and now shows 10%

The crystallised part and the non crystallised parts can grow at different rates depending on their underlying investments. 

In your example the  £100k pot that is 20% crystallised might, for example, grow to being a pot of £200k with 18.65% crystallised. 

With these platforms that do not split the pot, then the crystallised and uncrystallised % are in exactly the same investments.

I think this is the way Interactive Investor do things, with a 'notional split'. I'm only using UFPLS (for now), so my remaining SIPP is always uncrystallised.

https://www.ii.co.uk/ii-accounts/sipp/income-drawdown/notional-split

Steve_666_

I think this is the way Interactive Investor do things, with a 'notional split'. I'm only using UFPLS (for now), so my remaining SIPP is always uncrystallised.

https://www.ii.co.uk/ii-accounts/sipp/income-drawdown/notional-split

That is how I read the II information. So does anyone know whether a crystallised amount stays at exactly that amount and any growth is regarded as uncrystallised, or the percentage of the pot crystallised remains the same.

Note, I'm of a similar mind, will sell assets in II and take UFPLS. I dislike this idea of a % of an asset being crystallised. For my second pension, I will likely want a TFLS and crystallise the whole pot, so I think I will need a second provider to manage this.

dealyboy

@Steve_666_ said:

I think this is the way Interactive Investor do things, with a 'notional split'. I'm only using UFPLS (for now), so my remaining SIPP is always uncrystallised.

https://www.ii.co.uk/ii-accounts/sipp/income-drawdown/notional-split

That is how I read the II information. So does anyone know whether a crystallised amount stays at exactly that amount and any growth is regarded as uncrystallised, or the percentage of the pot crystallised remains the same.

Note, I'm of a similar mind, will sell assets in II and take UFPLS. I dislike this idea of a % of an asset being crystallised. For my second pension, I will likely want a TFLS and crystallise the whole pot, so I think I will need a second provider to manage this.

Hi there ...
Just commenting here because having read the details in @Doctor_Who 's  link, it appears to operate in the same way as AJ Bell, my platform.

It is all about the maintenance of SIPP splits or as AJB inaccurately call it 'fund splits'. They maintain the percentage split between uncrystallized value to crystallized value to 4dp unless an event occurs that alters the percentage. Changing investment valuations do not change the split, however they do affect the values of each part, but contributions and withdrawals do, so new contributions uncrystallized cash can go up and down as part of it moves between uncrystallized and crystallized within the total value.

Of course this can be either advantageous or disadvantageous to the investor.

I know that Hargreaves Lansdown amongst others maintain absolute values of uncrystallized and crystallized pots.

QrizB

Steve_666_ said:

That is how I read the II information. So does anyone know whether a crystallised amount stays at exactly that amount and any growth is regarded as uncrystallised, or the percentage of the pot crystallised remains the same.

If your crystallised funds grow, the growth is also part of your crystallised funds.