Removing Home Worker Allowance

alleycat`

As per the subject.

Company is trying to remove the monthly home worker allowance they pay directly as PAYE and are pushing employees to a link about how to claim directly via HMRC.

In context this allowance for home working pre-dates any "covid" new norm and isn't something that just happened. Various members of staff were approached  to undertake this as part of an effort to rationalize office space.

Anyone chosen had to have this signed off by directors and sign various documents / contract amendments. In essence this now feels like they've got the saving they wanted originally and are now trying to save a little bit more in payroll simplification.

My feelings are that pushing staff into self assessment is adding additional burden and costs in regards to time, record keeping, etc (so is not the like for like they're suggesting).

HR are being, sadly, quite evasive about what they can and cannot do other than it's a "consultation period". In effect HR are hiding behind managers trying to "sell" the benefits but

the managers in question freely admit they don't know what they can and cannot do if objections are raised. You then end up in this never ending spiral of them pointing at each other and realistically are no further forward.

I appreciate it's not a huge amount of money in the grand scale of things but i have concerns about the legalities of what they're doing and if they are stalling to push it outside of a time frame in which objections can be done (and in a specific manner).

Whilst for many this, probably, isn't a hill they wish to morally "die on", i do feel it should be more clear and concise on what employers "can" do v's what they might wish to get away with in regards to contract adjustments like this.

Brie

Well employers can change contracts quite extensively and employees can simply accept the new terms or look for a different job.  

What I would want to know if what is the difference between what is being paid by the employer and what you get from HMRC?  With covid my employer didn't offer anything for WFH but did advise us on how to apply for an albeit small tax break.  They also ensured that everyone had the opportunity to get correct kit to work safely at home - proper chairs, laptops, keyboards etc.

alleycat`

The payment is no more or less than what you'd get claiming it yourself.

I assumed the answer would be they can "do what they like" , seems ridiculous that they'd have to perform a 30 day consultation period if they can just do it anyway.

I was making the point that covid has nothing to do with why i WFH but the companies own choice to save on office space (and costs).

Savvy_Sue

To be fair, claiming the allowance through HMRC isn't exactly difficult. 

Any union presence?

tightauldgit

alleycat` said:

The payment is no more or less than what you'd get claiming it yourself.

I assumed the answer would be they can "do what they like" , seems ridiculous that they'd have to perform a 30 day consultation period if they can just do it anyway.

I was making the point that covid has nothing to do with why i WFH but the companies own choice to save on office space (and costs).

Employers can't really just change your contract terms without your agreement or unless there is some collective bargaining agreement. But the devil is in the detail of what your contract actually says and also whether it's worth making a fuss over it. 

alleycat`

Savvy_Sue said:

To be fair, claiming the allowance through HMRC isn't exactly difficult. 

Any union presence?

Whilst i wouldn't disagree that claiming it should be a simple affair I've had family on the wrong end of HMRC making an utter !!!!!! of their tax allowances in older age. On that basis alone i try to keep as far away from them as possible.

Sadly the union is a shadow of what it was and is now mostly run by a nodding dog meeting attender (and the membership reflects this decline in quality).

alleycat`

tightauldgit said:

alleycat` said:

The payment is no more or less than what you'd get claiming it yourself.

I assumed the answer would be they can "do what they like" , seems ridiculous that they'd have to perform a 30 day consultation period if they can just do it anyway.

I was making the point that covid has nothing to do with why i WFH but the companies own choice to save on office space (and costs).

Employers can't really just change your contract terms without your agreement or unless there is some collective bargaining agreement. But the devil is in the detail of what your contract actually says and also whether it's worth making a fuss over it. 

I do tend to think the push is on the basis that most wouldn't make a fuss about it and the aggravation / chance of making yourself a target means most would rather keep their heads down.

My annoyance is more that HR are actively ducking questions when, to my mind, they're supposed to work for the employee as well as the employer.

I appreciate everyone taking the time to respond as always.

Andy_L

alleycat` said:

As per the subject.

Company is trying to remove the monthly home worker allowance they pay directly as PAYE and are pushing employees to a link about how to claim directly via HMRC.

In context this allowance for home working pre-dates any "covid" new norm and isn't something that just happened. Various members of staff were approached  to undertake this as part of an effort to rationalize office space.

Anyone chosen had to have this signed off by directors and sign various documents / contract amendments. In essence this now feels like they've got the saving they wanted originally and are now trying to save a little bit more in payroll simplification.

My feelings are that pushing staff into self assessment is adding additional burden and costs in regards to time, record keeping, etc (so is not the like for like they're suggesting).

HR are being, sadly, quite evasive about what they can and cannot do other than it's a "consultation period". In effect HR are hiding behind managers trying to "sell" the benefits but

the managers in question freely admit they don't know what they can and cannot do if objections are raised. You then end up in this never ending spiral of them pointing at each other and realistically are no further forward.

I appreciate it's not a huge amount of money in the grand scale of things but i have concerns about the legalities of what they're doing and if they are stalling to push it outside of a time frame in which objections can be done (and in a specific manner).

Whilst for many this, probably, isn't a hill they wish to morally "die on", i do feel it should be more clear and concise on what employers "can" do v's what they might wish to get away with in regards to contract adjustments like this.

How much do they currently pay?

You can only claim the tax back on the home working allowance from HMRC, not the whole amount. Are they trying to pull a fast one/don't understand this themselves? 

Grumpy_chap

Savvy_Sue said:

To be fair, claiming the allowance through HMRC isn't exactly difficult. 

Any union presence?

I agree that the claim from HMRC is not difficult.

It is not the same, though.

The employer can pay £6 per week and all received without incurring income tax or NI.  Costs the employer to do this.

A claim from HMRC can only recover the income tax, not the full amount.

lincroft1710

alleycat` said:

tightauldgit said:

alleycat` said:

The payment is no more or less than what you'd get claiming it yourself.

I assumed the answer would be they can "do what they like" , seems ridiculous that they'd have to perform a 30 day consultation period if they can just do it anyway.

I was making the point that covid has nothing to do with why i WFH but the companies own choice to save on office space (and costs).

Employers can't really just change your contract terms without your agreement or unless there is some collective bargaining agreement. But the devil is in the detail of what your contract actually says and also whether it's worth making a fuss over it. 

My annoyance is more that HR are actively ducking questions when, to my mind, they're supposed to work for the employee as well as the employer.

.

HR work for the employer, it is very rare for HR to side with the employee where there is conflict between the two

400ixl

alleycat` said:

My annoyance is more that HR are actively ducking questions when, to my mind, they're supposed to work for the employee as well as the employer.

What gives you that impression? They are totally employed by the employer and they are there to ensure the employer does nothing illegal, basically they are there to a) keep the directors out of prison b) ensure the company runs as efficiently as possible from a human capital perspective. That is the limit of benefiting the employee, ensuring its all legal and works efficiently.

Do you need to do a self assessment to claim the working from home allowance? I thought it was a form to complete if you did not need to do a self assessment for any other reason.